Good 15x VS Great 10x/12x?

[BLJ]

Which would you prefer? And for my budget (example) the Vortex Vultures are $350 at sportsman. Would I be better off saving for used 12x Razors?
I’m not saying I’m committed to Vortex. Just used them in that scenario.
Primary use would be spotting steel impacts and misses to around 700. With an occasional 1k. Secondary would be spotting 22 matches to 350. Third would be used for spot and stalk situations out west.
These will always be used from a tripod and carried in my pack.
For reference, I have a set of Bushnell Forge 8x42 now that are very agreeable to my eyes. I’m just looking for a little more.
Budget is an absolute $1k. With $6-700 being way better. Thanks.

 

[Justin Crossley]

I would look at the Maven B1.2 for what you're describing. There is no way I would buy a pair of 15x binoculars for $600-$1000. The money will be better spent on a quality pair of 10x binoculars.

 

[sndmn11]

I would look at the Maven B1.2 for what you're describing. There is no way I would buy a pair of 15x binoculars for $600-$1000. The money will be better spent on a quality pair of 10x binoculars.

Bingo. One can do a ton with 8/10x that fit well and are top quality. A digiscope setup for those binoculars on a tripod covers far more than naked 15/18x could for how most people use them.

 

[Thinkingman]

You can get away with cheaper glass in 8X/10X.
Move up to 12, 15...The compromise is going to become more evident....Iight transmission, flare, resolution.
The amount of time you spend glassing is going to be a factor...More time equals more eyestrain.
I learned this with riflescopes.

 

[BLJ]

With me keeping my 8x42 forge’s, is a 10x going to make a big difference? I’ll concede that I have next to no time behind “good” glass. The Forge’s are the best I’ve ever had. I’d like to supplement them with a better, higher magnification bino. That was my original plan.
I do have a pair of 6x that I always carry when I hunt. Would it be a better idea to unload my 8x’s and buy some better 10x or 12x? Thanks guys.

 

[nobody]

I agree with everyone above, go with great 10x/12x, but pick one up in the 50mm objective. This will increase twilight factor and light transmission in poor quality light, and (in my case) increases glassable light significantly. I gained roughly 40 minutes of glassing in the morning going from some mid-range 10x42's to my higher end 10x50's. You can be flat dangerous with a high quality pair of 10 or 12x50's on a sturdy tripod and good head.

I picked up some 15's last year, and I've been surprised with how little I use them. They were intriguing to me, but now that I own them, I can typically make more cases against taking them than for taking them. My 10x50's are better in low light, have a wider FOV, better depth of field, and I can see plenty far for my hunting style with them. Then I just use my spotter for detailed work.

That being said, I think it's just my use case that makes it so I really don't use the 15's much. I'm really confident in my 10x50's out to about 1-1.25 miles, and that's about as far as I can glass where I hunt. If I was hunting Coues deer on a regular basis, I might feel differently. But I'm not, so my 15's just gather dust. I have a feeling they'll come out when my dad draws his Desert Bighorn tag in the next few years, but I don't see any trips other than that where I would pack them.

But hey, I'm just some random guy on the internet...

 

[Justin Crossley]

With me keeping my 8x42 forge’s, is a 10x going to make a big difference? I’ll concede that I have next to no time behind “good” glass. The Forge’s are the best I’ve ever had. I’d like to supplement them with a better, higher magnification bino. That was my original plan.
I do have a pair of 6x that I always carry when I hunt. Would it be a better idea to unload my 8x’s and buy some better 10x or 12x? Thanks guys.

Yes, I would sell the 8x42 and spend the extra getting the best pair of 10x in your budget.

I wouldn't personally go to the 12x in your price range. Definitely not a 15x or 18x.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Leupold Santiam HD 15x can be found used for around $1k, sometimes less. I ran these side by side with some 12x42 NL pures for 10 days during an elk hunt. Leupolds were bigger and heavier, and tough to use without a tripod, but held their own against the NL Pures. In one instance we saw what looked like an elk 3200 yards away at last light through the swaros. When we pulled up the Santiams we could clearly tell it was a rock.

 

[BLJ]

@PredatorSlayer. I missed a set of Leupold 15x today for $700. I would have tried them for that.
@nobody. I like the idea of the 50mm objective myself.
@Justin Crossley. Why go for 10x over 12x?
Thanks everyone.

 

[sndmn11]

@PredatorSlayer. I missed a set of Leupold 15x today for $700. I would have tried them for that.
@nobody. I like the idea of the 50mm objective myself.
@Justin Crossley. Why go for 10x over 12x?
Thanks everyone.

Follow @Justin Crossley 's advice or heed mine. I use 8x because I can see spot more animals via FOV than magnification.

I'd bet a lot of money most people couldn't pick 8x from 10x or 10x from 12x in any noticeable way other than free hand clarity due to micro vibration.

 

[BLJ]

Follow @Justin Crossley 's advice or heed mine. I use 8x because I can see spot more animals via FOV than magnification.

I'd bet a lot of money most people couldn't pick 8x from 10x or 10x from 12x in any noticeable way other than free hand clarity due to micro vibration.

I like the 6x I carry hunting for the both the reasons you state above. FOV and no noticeable shaking. But what I’ve found is that for me, my 6x and 8x are lacking (for me) from about 600 yards and out on steel. When we go beyond that it’s really difficult.

Now after some suggestions on magnification, what are some suggestions on make and model? Brand doesn’t matter to me. I want the best I can get with the budget I have. New or used.
The local shop carries Leupold and Vortex. And i don’t believe I’ve ever seen any BX-5 or Razor stuff in there. So this is probably goi g to be a buy and try deal. Thanks.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Typically clarity trumps magnification.

Go closer to $1K which opens the door for you to Zeiss, GPO, Leica, etc. With a bit of shopping around you can get the Vortex Razor HD (not the UHD) for about $750.

 

[sndmn11]

I like the 6x I carry hunting for the both the reasons you state above. FOV and no noticeable shaking. But what I’ve found is that for me, my 6x and 8x are lacking (for me) from about 600 yards and out on steel. When we go beyond that it’s really difficult.

Typically clarity trumps magnification.

My answer to why you can't see is the same answer as above.


Maven B1.2 in 8x is what I sold Swarovski SLCs to use.

Maven B6 in 10x specs out similarly.

They have a demo program; I'd find one other $1k set from another brand that you like and can demo, and have your own shootout. It is very likely that your preference will come to how your preferred pair fits with your nose and face, then ergonomics because there isn't much optically different around $1k to $2k.

 

[bhylton]

For a mid priced bino, I don't mind the bx-4 pro guide 12x... I use viper HD 10x42 primarily which are thoroughly mid-lower end and I would say the bx-4 were at least as good optically. I also had no problem hand holding 12s vs 10s. The 10x to 12x jump makes a practical difference to me as well

 

[nobody]

@PredatorSlayer. I missed a set of Leupold 15x today for $700. I would have tried them for that.
@nobody. I like the idea of the 50mm objective myself.
@Justin Crossley. Why go for 10x over 12x?
Thanks everyone.

Not to steal @Justin Crossley thunder, and I hope he still chimes in and gives his opinion. But the 10x vs. 12x argument is largely dictated by use case and terrain/game. The 10's are about as high as anybody can go and still freehand semi-effectively. A 12x will not only magnify the image more, but it will magnify your minute movements and shake (ie, heartbeat). The fatigue will set in just as quickly as a 10, but the image will appear more stable in the 10x because the movements aren't as magnified.

Also, even in a 12x50, the low light performance will be lesser than a 10x50. I had a Colorado 3rd season tag this year and my dad tagged along. He picked up a pair of Vortex Razor UHD's about 2 years ago, and he just HAD to have the 12x50 because more=better, right? I talked to him a ton about optical engineering and tradeoffs for 10's vs. 12's, but he knew best and just had to have the 12's. Last year, I picked up the same bino, Razor UHD, in a 10x50. Colorado 3rd season is pretty glassing intensive, and on the morning of the 3rd day, we were all glassing through our binos from a tripod, and watching a small buck at about a mile off. Dad couldn't really tell what he was in the wee-hours of the morning, just that he was a small buck. But through my 10x50's, we could tell he was a small 2x3. It was about 15 more minutes before my dad's 12's were bright enough to see as well as we could earlier with the 10x50's.

Later that day, we had stopped to glass a small face quick because we had seen some movement through the trees, and we all just picked up our binos freehand. It wasn't very long, about 5 minutes total glassing. After a few minutes, we picked up and moved to another spot. While driving in the Jeep, dad just says to me "You know, I see why you told me to go with 10's instead of 12's now. It was easier in the low light to see and I can totally see the shake you were talking about. I might have to make a change."

As I said above, higher power binos have their place. But IMO, 10's offer more positive tradeoffs than negative ones, and 12's (for how I hunt) offer more negatives than positives. Wider field of view, larger exit pupil (critical in low light), easier to freehand, plenty of magnification to get pretty stupid far out when using a tripod (1.5 miles is pretty easy with quality 10's), the list goes on.

 

[Justin Crossley]

I think @nobody nailed it in his post above.

And to expand on it slightly. I bought the 12x42 Swarovski NL Pures this year. I think they are the absolute best binocular ever made for mule deer hunting the way I hunt. I do a lot of stationary glassing with a tripod at very long distances. The 12x42 NL Pure is unique in how wide the field of view is so you don't have the tradeoffs that most 12x have. They do still show more shake compared to a 10x though.

If I was hunting more timber or shorter distances, I would absolutely go with an 8x or 10x binocular. If I was looking for something at or below $1k, I would go with an 8x or 10x.

 

[BLJ]

@nobody. So with a 10x your confidently identifying a 2x3 instead of just a “buck” at a mile? With the UHD’s?
@nobody and @Justin Crossley. I’m going to try some “quality over quantity”. I’ve always been under the impression that I needed mor mag, but in reality may need better binos.
This may be a spring time purchase. I’m going to start researching and trying to find some good stuff to look through. May look into the demo programs as well.
All suggestions on brand at my price point are welcome. Thanks guys.

 

[nobody]

@nobody. So with a 10x your confidently identifying a 2x3 instead of just a “buck” at a mile? With the UHD’s?
@nobody and @Justin Crossley. I’m going to try some “quality over quantity”. I’ve always been under the impression that I needed mor mag, but in reality may need better binos.
This may be a spring time purchase. I’m going to start researching and trying to find some good stuff to look through. May look into the demo programs as well.
All suggestions on brand at my price point are welcome. Thanks guys.

Remember these are the UHD's ($1800), not the HD's ($1k). Big difference.

But yes, from a tripod we could tell he had a small fork on his left side that made him a 3 on the left. It was early morning, VERY cold, clear skies, no mirage, and he was highly contrasted against the snow and was moving along VERY slowly and just feeding, so optimal glassing conditions. Also, he wasn't a yearling 2x3, he was a couple years old we figure so he was more than a barely forked 2x3, he had a decent frame to him (probably 18" or 20" wide). I can't always do that with the 10's, like if there was tons of mirage or any other type of in-air distortion. But then again, the 12 wouldn't have picked it up either. But in those conditions we couldn't see anything with a 12 that we couldn't see with the 10. So at that rate, give me the 10's for the extra field of view and larger exit pupil.

At 1K, I would pick up some Mavens, either the B.2 9x45 or the B.6 10x50. Both of those are what I would call Alpha-Minus, and do a really good job of pushing really really hard on the Alpha class glass without gutting the wallet.

If you wanna spend less, look for some used Mavens. Had a coworker who picked up the B.2's last year. He demoed a pair and liked them, so he returned them to Maven and started watching local classifieds right after Christmas. After a few weeks, he scored a pair of B.2's with a broken diopter that he ended up paying $700 for. He bought them, took them right to UPS and shipped them to Maven, and in 2 weeks he got them back fixed up and as good as new. He was only out about $730 all in, between purchase and shipping.

 

[BLJ]

Remember these are the UHD's ($1800), not the HD's ($1k). Big difference.

But yes, from a tripod we could tell he had a small fork on his left side that made him a 3 on the left. It was early morning, VERY cold, clear skies, no mirage, and he was highly contrasted against the snow and was moving along VERY slowly and just feeding, so optimal glassing conditions. Also, he wasn't a yearling 2x3, he was a couple years old we figure so he was more than a barely forked 2x3, he had a decent frame to him (probably 18" or 20" wide). I can't always do that with the 10's, like if there was tons of mirage or any other type of in-air distortion. But then again, the 12 wouldn't have picked it up either. But in those conditions we couldn't see anything with a 12 that we couldn't see with the 10. So at that rate, give me the 10's for the extra field of view and larger exit pupil.

At 1K, I would pick up some Mavens, either the B.2 9x45 or the B.6 10x50. Both of those are what I would call Alpha-Minus, and do a really good job of pushing really really hard on the Alpha class glass without gutting the wallet.

If you wanna spend less, look for some used Mavens. Had a coworker who picked up the B.2's last year. He demoed a pair and liked them, so he returned them to Maven and started watching local classifieds right after Christmas. After a few weeks, he scored a pair of B.2's with a broken diopter that he ended up paying $700 for. He bought them, took them right to UPS and shipped them to Maven, and in 2 weeks he got them back fixed up and as good as new. He was only out about $730 all in, between purchase and shipping.

I understood on the HD/UHD difference. Just the fact that you were able to distinguish points at the distance is baffling to me.
I’ll check into the Mavens. 10x50 sounds like a good place to start. Thanks.

 

[nobody]

I understood on the HD/UHD difference. Just the fact that you were able to distinguish points at the distance is baffling to me.
I’ll check into the Mavens. 10x50 sounds like a good place to start. Thanks.

No worries, just wanted to throw that out there because not everybody understands the distinction.

Yeah it baffled me too. Again, conditions were perfect, but I can't think of a condition where a 12x would've allowed me to see that tine when the 10x wouldn't have, and vice versa.

Same thing happened last year. A guy I used to hunt with ended up killing a decent 4 point on a Utah General Muzzleloader tag. I spotted the buck at first light at just a tick under 1500 yards, and my buddy found him a few seconds later. He immediately knew he was a 4 point, and I agreed and told him his right G2 had a small tripod tine trying to grow. He brushed me off and told me I was nuts, that I couldn't tell that through my 10's. So we threw the spotter on him and BAM, 2" cheater at the base of the fork between his G2 and G3 on the inside. Again, perfect conditions, but I had no issues seeing the tine through my 10's.

Optical quality does more for you than optical quantity does, keep than in mind as you search. Good luck to you! If you make it out to SLC for the Hunt Expo companies will usually do show specials (I think Maven does 15% off at the show?), something to keep in mind as you shop!