Good news for Ebiker users on public land.

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It's my understanding that for larger dudes, especially with a pack full of water and gear, that it would not be optimal to go for a 750W or lower motor for an eBike you'd plan to use for helping you with Hunting.

Obviously it'd *help*, but it's my understanding that if presented with a long uphill, that 750W motor will be over-taxed with a 220+ Lbs dude and his pack on it.

(For context, I asked questions of the owner of a local LBS whom could custom-build one for me, explaining this place I goto that has a 7mi road that goes all downhill to get down into there. They disallow normal folks on that road with a vehicle. But bikes they're OK with, not sure if they've gone back and specifically marked it as no eBikes or not.)


I'm very familiar with the limitations of 750w.
My point is just to call a spade a spade.

If an area is to be non-motorized, foot traffic, I think it should be just that. No horses, no bikes. You welcome to go wherever you can walk. Just the irony of people being ok with horses and then proclaim, but it has a motor, not fair, gets me.
 
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@Billy Goat
Very astute. Even your 750w motorized bike will not likely be allowed on most non-motorized trails or seasonally closed roads. There’s another thing to call whatever you’d like to call it… I’ll call it “the law” 😉
 
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307

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Nope. The contact patch is still smaller on a bike. And horses don’t spin out.
Horses dig, and paw and chew on things, shit all over the place... On soft ground their footprints can leave craters that remain for months. I don't know why you think horses distribute ground force better than a bike. Considering the horse is primarily on 2 feet at a time during gait and you have to account for their immense weight in addition to gear and rider, the psi for a horse hoof is many multiples of a bike tire.

I'm all for horses in the backcountry but their impact on trails and backcountry areas is way bigger than a bike.
 
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Horses dig, and paw and chew on things, shit all over the place... On soft ground their footprints can leave craters that remain for months. I don't know why you think horses distribute ground force better than a bike. Considering the horse is primarily on 2 feet at a time during gait and you have to account for their immense weight in addition to gear and rider, the psi for a horse hoof is many multiples of a bike tire.

I'm all for horses in the backcountry but their impact on trails and backcountry areas is way bigger than a bike.
The debate is academic. You may very well be right. Doesn’t change the fact that electric motorcycles will not be allowed on most non-motorized trails and roads that close seasonally.
 

twall13

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Nope. The contact patch is still smaller on a bike. And horses don’t spin out.
I enjoy mountain biking and, while I don't own an E-bike, I've been around enough of them to be familiar with them. If your tire is "spinning out" you're doing it wrong. Yes, they have a motor, but they aren't shooting rooster tails of dirt behind them like a typical motorcycle. IMHO, the damage from an E-bike is being way overblown. They would certainly have an added an impact on the trails, especially as the popularity increases, but they aren't spinning out everywhere they go. My dad also owns horses, it's pretty crazy the amount of damage a string of horses can do to a muddy trail.

I'm not saying I'm for changing the rules, I'm just saying I think the spin out damage argument is being a bit overblown. Personally I'm okay with people using E-bikes, horses, etc. where they are currently allowed. I'm not a fan of opening new trails to E-bikes but I do see that as a bit of an uphill battle as they gain popularity in the cycling world. I'm vehemently opposed to bikes, E-bikes, motorcycles, etc. in designated wilderness areas. Not really what's being discussed here but some people might be confused by the distinction. My opposition is more for preserving the solitude and wild nature of those areas than it is for trail damage specifically.



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Fellas… we could do this endlessly. It doesn’t change the law and the current law isn’t going to change enough to make eclectic terror machines a viable easy button for fat bubba to get “way out there”.

See what I’m doing there? Ramping up the rhetoric… it’s a joke, as is this thread. We all had our fun playing in the land of make believe. I played too. Now let’s talk about something that is actually related to hunting in the backcountry. See you in the lightweight zone.
 
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Marble

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Nope. The contact patch is still smaller on a bike. And horses don’t spin out.
I dont even think of them really in the same category. The end result is similar in that it gets people into the back country or, just provides an assisted method of getting there.

I was going to say the destruction to a trail from the Ebikes spinning tires would something to consider. But if anyone has ridden horses like I have, you would know those trails used by horses are tore up.

Just like an electric car, I am hesitant to get into one until they are as reliable and provide a similar range to a gas powered vehicle. Not to mention in the past the ebikes were prone to breaking chains. Not sure where that stands now.

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Ucsdryder

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At some point we need to stop with technology. If you’re for e-bikes you better be for crossbows too. All this back and forth about semantics…if it’s motorized it doesn’t go on a motorized trail. Black and white, no need to introduce gray.
 

twall13

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[QUOTE="Marble, post: 2541299, member: 32679"Not to mention in the past the ebikes were prone to breaking chains. Not sure where that stands now.

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They are still prone to breaking chains when people try to use them like a motorcycle. The chains can't handle the torque on the hills if you aren't using the gears and pedaling too. That speaks to my point above about "spin out". They aren't built for that type of use, but do fine if you use them like a mountain bike with some assist to help you pedal.

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Marble

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Fellas… we could do this endlessly. It doesn’t change the law and the current law isn’t going to change enough to make eclectic terror machines a viable easy button for fat bubba to get “way out there”.

See what I’m doing there? Ramping up the rhetoric… it’s a joke, as is this thread. We all had our fun playing in the land of make believe. I played too. Now let’s talk about something that is actually related to hunting in the backcountry. See you in the lightweight zone.
I read through most of the thread and realized...I can't unread this...

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CJ19

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Fellas… we could do this endlessly. It doesn’t change the law and the current law isn’t going to change enough to make eclectic terror machines a viable easy button for fat bubba to get “way out there”.

See what I’m doing there? Ramping up the rhetoric… it’s a joke, as is this thread. We all had our fun playing in the land of make believe. I played too. Now let’s talk about something that is actually related to hunting in the backcountry. See you in the lightweight zone.
There are plenty of people that might want to read or have an opinion about this topic. You are welcome to go read and particiate in a different thread that you find more meaningful or interesting. I like to read peoples opinion on the matter though because for me it sheds light on what public opinion might be.
 

CoStick

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There are plenty of people that might want to read or have an opinion about this topic. You are welcome to go read and particiate in a different thread that you find more meaningful or interesting. I like to read peoples opinion on the matter though because for me it sheds light on what public opinion might be.
Public opinion will support it, it makes it easier. It is a progressive way to think.
 
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I do hunt from mountain bike where approved, but I am against e-bikes on mtb trails simply because it makes it that much easier to get a long way from the trailhead. There is already unprecedented "backcountry" pressure, why pile it on?

My opinion - e-bikes should only be allowed on trails approved for motorized use, because they have ... a motor.

Horses are completely different - much harder to jump into horse ownership, it's a traditional mode of travel, and the amount of traffic from horse hunters is pretty well established. Comparing that to suddenly approving e-bikes seems a little naive to me. Every single person on here could find a way to own an e-bike, and as pointed out will increase traffic from non-hunters as well. Also e-bikes (and mountain bikes for that matter) could cause a nasty horse wreck.
 
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CJ19

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Public opinion will support it, it makes it easier. It is a progressive way to think.
Unfortunately things tend to head that way. i have always like hardwork being a barrier to entry for wilderness or other hard to reach areas. @wind gypsy laid it out pretty well in post a couple back from my perspective.
 

CorbLand

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I have always been against their use but I think in some situations I would reconsider. My son is handicapped. It would be great if he could use one to get to some of the places I have hunted for years. That said, If everyone could do the same, those places wouldn't be as desirable of a destination.
At the risk of sounding like a heartless asshole, to be honest I struggle with this. Life is not fair and we all have things that limit us from doing things. We all have some form of disability that doesnt allow us to do things to the level that someone else does. So, while I feel for you and your son, part of life is adjusting to the curve balls it throws at us. I am color blind and struggle to see animals. I overlook animals every time I go hunting and I will say that it affects my success. I have never once advocated for something be done to help me. It would make my life way easier if Fish and Game painted deer bright orange...I can sometimes see that depending on the back ground.

I feel for you and I have nothing but respect for parents that face the adversity of handicap kids with a smile.
 

Laramie

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At the risk of sounding like a heartless asshole, to be honest I struggle with this. Life is not fair and we all have things that limit us from doing things. We all have some form of disability that doesnt allow us to do things to the level that someone else does. So, while I feel for you and your son, part of life is adjusting to the curve balls it throws at us. I am color blind and struggle to see animals. I overlook animals every time I go hunting and I will say that it affects my success. I have never once advocated for something be done to help me. It would make my life way easier if Fish and Game painted deer bright orange...I can sometimes see that depending on the back ground.

I feel for you and I have nothing but respect for parents that face the adversity of handicap kids with a smile.
That isn't heartless imo. I struggle with it as well and ultimately think the rules should probably stay as they are or have only very strict exceptions. Special rules just open the door for others to take advantage of them. If my son were allowed, then others would be as well so I probably wouldn't want to take him on those closed trails anyways. He gets a few perks in the hunting world that many others don't so in the end it probably balances out.
 

tdhanses

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Heritage, historic use, and tradition aside, I think ebikes would have a larger negative impact on the wild places via higher density and frequency of human use, than horses.

We would have to open up regulations to allow ebikes and we would have to forever standing regulations to reduce horse use. If the goal is just to make it accessible to everyone, why stop at ebikes?
I see what your saying but I’m sure many have said this before as trails were opened up to more means then just hiking, it seems kind of like the argument the compound bow ruined archery and made archery such an easy method of hunting once it came about and was legal.
 
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tdhanses

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Horses dig, and paw and chew on things, shit all over the place... On soft ground their footprints can leave craters that remain for months. I don't know why you think horses distribute ground force better than a bike. Considering the horse is primarily on 2 feet at a time during gait and you have to account for their immense weight in addition to gear and rider, the psi for a horse hoof is many multiples of a bike tire.

I'm all for horses in the backcountry but their impact on trails and backcountry areas is way bigger than a bike.
It would take a lot of ebikes to do this, which is on public. 4371BE2F-EE42-4A71-B74A-7201745E2228.jpeg

9A826E67-1DBC-45AC-9FA1-1904325972A1.jpeg
 

Blackcow

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FS and BLM manage for multi-use, it’s their mandate. Different user groups have always hated some other group, and probably always will. Where I live, most hikers DESPISE my bikers, unless they do both. Just how it is I guess.
 
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I rode a $15,000 pedal assisted Specialized recently. Not far, but apparently you can bluetooth connect to it and plug in a destination and the battery will provide you with as much assist to return back with 5% charge left or something like that. The technology in them is insane. It was so easy to ride too, just flew uphill.

Hunted timber company land on my regular mtn bike this fall. Had to walk it up most of the uphill roads but boy was it nice to hunt until the end of shooting light and be out before it got dark enough to need a lamp. 4+ miles in no time. The pack does throw off your balance quite a bit. I can't imagine trying to ride with an elk quarter on your back...

I'd be happy with them keeping e-bikes classified as motorized.
 
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