Is there hope for Meateater?

[fwafwow]

New unrelated-to-hunting tangent. For those who listened to the most recent show (#281 "Sacred Seeds"), I would appreciate any help. The main guest said that Thanksgiving is made up, and he took issue with teaching kids about a made up story. He then spoke at length about Native American beliefs, including stories of giants and little people, wolves that went to the underworld, etc. (He went on for so long that I had to fast forward - and I was driving - so maybe I missed something important.)

Here's where I'm confused. That guy seemed to talk about those beliefs as if they were true, not myths or legends. I think he even said about the stories of giants ~"they've been handed down for so long, there must be something to them." So my question - is it inconsistent to take issue with the story of Pilgrims and Thanksgiving, but at the same time talk about giants, little people, serpents eating the moon, etc., as if those are not also parables?

Spoiler alert - I haven't finished the podcast and the guest is just about to explain how Bigfoot is real, so please don't ruin it for me.

 

[Schaaf]

New unrelated-to-hunting tangent. For those who listened to the most recent show (#281 "Sacred Seeds"), I would appreciate any help. The main guest said that Thanksgiving is made up, and he took issue with teaching kids about a made up story. He then spoke at length about Native American beliefs, including stories of giants and little people, wolves that went to the underworld, etc. (He went on for so long that I had to fast forward - and I was driving - so maybe I missed something important.)

Here's where I'm confused. That guy seemed to talk about those beliefs as if they were true, not myths or legends. I think he even said about the stories of giants ~"they've been handed down for so long, there must be something to them." So my question - is it inconsistent to take issue with the story of Pilgrims and Thanksgiving, but at the same time talk about giants, little people, serpents eating the moon, etc., as if those are not also parables?

Spoiler alert - I haven't finished the podcast and the guest is just about to explain how Bigfoot is real, so please don't ruin it for me.

He was a Native American and those are his religious beliefs. Ask a devout Christian if there’s a God, if he sent his son to earth to be born from a virgin, and if he rose from the dead 3 days later.

Don’t really think there’s much to see there.

 

[Dos Perros]

If Thanksgiving is made up, then why is it an actual thing I do with my family every ******* Thanksgiving?

 

[Clockwork]

New unrelated-to-hunting tangent. For those who listened to the most recent show (#281 "Sacred Seeds"), I would appreciate any help. The main guest said that Thanksgiving is made up, and he took issue with teaching kids about a made up story. He then spoke at length about Native American beliefs, including stories of giants and little people, wolves that went to the underworld, etc. (He went on for so long that I had to fast forward - and I was driving - so maybe I missed something important.)

Here's where I'm confused. That guy seemed to talk about those beliefs as if they were true, not myths or legends. I think he even said about the stories of giants ~"they've been handed down for so long, there must be something to them." So my question - is it inconsistent to take issue with the story of Pilgrims and Thanksgiving, but at the same time talk about giants, little people, serpents eating the moon, etc., as if those are not also parables?

Spoiler alert - I haven't finished the podcast and the guest is just about to explain how Bigfoot is real, so please don't ruin it for me.

I just finished it last night at work and I noticed how hypocritical he was about it and wrong on a lot of other things. What you believe and do is wrong and you should do and believe what he says is true.

I doubt he sees himself that way, as do most people in this world.

 

[bsnedeker]

If someone tries to tell me that St. Patrick didn't drive the snakes out of Ireland I'm gonna LOSE IT!

 

[ODB]

They actually ran an ad for Ibram X. Kendi's podcast on CRT during yesterday's show. From Marx and Lenin to the Frankfurt school to Mercuse and now Kendi. The ideology is easily traced. The oxford scholars were already called critical theorists. The neos just added race. "All hitherto history is the history of class struggle"- Marx. The Neo commies just replace the term class with the term race. I really didn't peg the meateater folks as commie supporters. It must have been coming in slowly since they got bought by the Churnin group or whatever it's called.

Yes, this is a point many simply do not get - that any topic can be seen through critical theory (Marx). I saw it in a nutrition class, in a literature class, in a rhetoric class, in the selection of vendors for manufacturing.

people simply have no clue that the point of Critical theory of ANY stripe is to destroy the realm of study in order to insert their own power structure into it. When a company buys into the CT crap, they invite people in to point out the where the company is failing in diversity and inclusion. They become a permanent fixture in the running of the company. Anything that does not serve Critical theory must go…. How much money has Kendi made? And who has he raised from poverty?

 

[ODB]

New unrelated-to-hunting tangent. For those who listened to the most recent show (#281 "Sacred Seeds"), I would appreciate any help. The main guest said that Thanksgiving is made up, and he took issue with teaching kids about a made up story. He then spoke at length about Native American beliefs, including stories of giants and little people, wolves that went to the underworld, etc. (He went on for so long that I had to fast forward - and I was driving - so maybe I missed something important.)

Here's where I'm confused. That guy seemed to talk about those beliefs as if they were true, not myths or legends. I think he even said about the stories of giants ~"they've been handed down for so long, there must be something to them." So my question - is it inconsistent to take issue with the story of Pilgrims and Thanksgiving, but at the same time talk about giants, little people, serpents eating the moon, etc., as if those are not also parables?

Spoiler alert - I haven't finished the podcast and the guest is just about to explain how Bigfoot is real, so please don't ruin it for me.

Thought the same thing. We venerate these stories as if they are true because they come from an “ancient” tradition, but traditions vary. And whether he likes it or not, the civilization that wins always tells the story.
He made mention of my tribe, the Osage. We were known for having very tall people. That’s why we have the name TallChief in our tribe. Maria Tallchief was a famous dancer. Stories abound of 7-footers.

we are also known for our brutality and beheading our enemies, the Kiowa especially. Look up the Cutthroat Gap Massacre. In 1863 we wrote a treaty in preparation of potentially working with the new confederate states of America. In it we codified that slavery must be preserved because it had been a part of the Osage lands from time immemorial. Then we became some of the richest people in history from our mineral rights. Read David Granns book on it.


Histiry is a complicated thing if you really look into it. As easy as it is to look at the legend and stories that are shared as mystical and earthly and wonderful, just as many shameful ones are not told.

 

[fwafwow]

He was a Native American and those are his religious beliefs. Ask a devout Christian if there’s a God, if he sent his son to earth to be born from a virgin, and if he rose from the dead 3 days later.

Don’t really think there’s much to see there.

I get the comparison to Christianity, and I may have been too broad in including each of the things he discussed in the same sweeping category of "myths and legends". (If so, my apologies.)

Serious question, as I'm obviously less than up to speed on Native American religion - are all (or many) of the stories passed down through the tribes part of their religion? I think there was some discussion about Bigfoot being "owned by" (I'm butchering it) the tribes, and if they felt that was part of their religion, then it might not be as easy for someone (like myself) outside of their religion to try to draw parallels or similar distinctions between what I might consider myths and legends from my ancestors (that are not necessarily tied to ancestral religion), and outwardly similar stories from his ancestors that are really part of the fabric of his religion.

 

[ODB]

The stories ARE the religion, not part of it - the origin, journey and destination.

yes he was basically saying that Bigfoot “was” theirs. But it’s also interesting that he mentioned that so many other tribes have a similar story around the world. Are regular old, pasty white people not also part of a “tribe?”

this was what is known as “othering”. There are tribe members who have access to certain things, others do not because they don’t belong.

 

[fwafwow]

Thought the same thing. We venerate these stories as if they are true because they come from an “ancient” tradition, but traditions vary. And whether he likes it or not, the civilization that wins always tells the story.
He made mention of my tribe, the Osage. We were known for having very tall people. That’s why we have the name TallChief in our tribe. Maria Tallchief was a famous dancer. Stories abound of 7-footers.

we are also known for our brutality and beheading our enemies, the Kiowa especially. Look up the Cutthroat Gap Massacre. In 1863 we wrote a treaty in preparation of potentially working with the new confederate states of America. In it we codified that slavery must be preserved because it had been a part of the Osage lands from time immemorial. Then we became some of the richest people in history from our mineral rights. Read David Granns book on it.


Histiry is a complicated thing if you really look into it. As easy as it is to look at the legend and stories that are shared as mystical and earthly and wonderful, just as many shameful ones are not told.

Killing of the Flower Moon? I think Steve has mentioned that on prior podcasts. I've just ordered it. I will also look up the Cutthroat Gap Massacre. Thank you. I think there is always more to learn about history, and some of it isn't always positive. Even within my immediate family, my kids are descended from people who practiced two religions, and one branch's religious ancestors drove the other branch's ancestors out, and not peacefully (also including a massacre).

The stories ARE the religion, not part of it - the origin, journey and destination.

yes he was basically saying that Bigfoot “was” theirs. But it’s also interesting that he mentioned that so many other tribes have a similar story around the world. Are regular old, pasty white people not also part of a “tribe?”

this was what is known as “othering”. There are tribe members who have access to certain things, others do not because they don’t belong.

Thank you. I personally didn't get the "you don't belong" sense from him, in that he did introduce himself with his native language and said that the initial greeting says something along the lines of "we are all part of one another" and I believe he said that was very broad (which I felt included me, even as an old, pasty white guy).

When he spoke of his DNA and other sources of non-tribal ancestry, it made me think about how I (and my father and his father, etc.) sometimes focus our ancestry based on our last name and those who had it, even though the relevance of that is cut in half at every generation. As an example, my point above about two religions is based on my last name and how they were persecuted and massacred. But my ancestors' religion was also responsible for violence, and those ancestors of mine are now so diluted due to many generations of marriage, that I'm probably focusing on a very narrow portion of my history.

 

[ODB]

Killing of the Flower Moon? I think Steve has mentioned that on prior podcasts. I've just ordered it. I will also look up the Cutthroat Gap Massacre. Thank you. I think there is always more to learn about history, and some of it isn't always positive. Even within my immediate family, my kids are descended from people who practiced two religions, and one branch's religious ancestors drove the other branch's ancestors out, and not peacefully (also including a massacre).


Thank you. I personally didn't get the "you don't belong" sense from him, in that he did introduce himself with his native language and said that the initial greeting says something along the lines of "we are all part of one another" and I believe he said that was very broad (which I felt included me, even as an old, pasty white guy).

When he spoke of his DNA and other sources of non-tribal ancestry, it made me think about how I (and my father and his father, etc.) sometimes focus our ancestry based on our last name and those who had it, even though the relevance of that is cut in half at every generation. As an example, my point above about two religions is based on my last name and how they were persecuted and massacred. But my ancestors' religion was also responsible for violence, and those ancestors of mine are now so diluted due to many generations of marriage, that I'm probably focusing on a very narrow portion of my history.

Don’t think he’s mentioned Granns book, he usually talks about SC Gwynnes book Empire of the Summer Moon. By the way, Gwynne wrote probably the best biography on Stonewall Jackson ive ever read. It’s truly a great read and worth anyone’s time.

 

[fwafwow]

Don’t think he’s mentioned Granns book, he usually talks about SC Gwynnes book Empire of the Summer Moon. By the way, Gwynne wrote probably the best biography on Stonewall Jackson ive ever read. It’s truly a great read and worth anyone’s time.

Yes, that’s it - “Moon” in both titles must have thrown me off. Thx!

 

[hntr]

Clay Newcomb is a definite step in the right direction, though i think they are doing fine. Not a fan of Mark Kenyon at all but enjoy most of their content and think Steve is a huge asset to hunters in general.

Clay was on Rogan recently, I do not have spotify so just see clips on youtube.

I've never understood Steve bring Mark to light. I mean he basically brought on a guy that had a half page resume. listening to him and his deer knowledge in the beginning was like eating stale bread, and the stale bread was the heel.

 

[Life_Feeds_On_Life]

I just finished it last night at work and I noticed how hypocritical he was about it and wrong on a lot of other things. What you believe and do is wrong and you should do and believe what he says is true.

I literally laughed when he compared finding ancient arrowhead to finding someone's lost wallet with $500 in it. Ain't nobody frantically searching for that arrowhead.

 

[ODB]

I literally laughed when he compared finding ancient arrowhead to finding someone's lost wallet with $500 in it. Ain't nobody frantically searching for that arrowhead.

I didn’t get that comparison either. The fact is, the world is a palimpsest, it is literally littered with the remnants of civilizations on top of civilizations on top of civilizations. If every artifact we found was worthy of us stopping and convening a council, civilization would stop. There are boundaries here, but come on.

 

[bsnedeker]

I didn’t get that comparison either. The fact is, the world is a palimpsest, it is literally littered with the remnants of civilizations on top of civilizations on top of civilizations. If every artifact we found was worthy of us stopping and convening a council, civilization would stop. There are boundaries here, but come on.

Someone is putting that Word a Day calendar to good use!

 

[ODB]

Someone is putting that Word a Day calendar to good use!

Eh, no. that’s just my vocabulary. Don’t have a word a day calendar.

if you can think of a better word for what I am describing please elucidate (that means to explain).

(Added later: apologies to @bsnedeker here - didn’t catch the sarcasm initially).

 

[bsnedeker]

Eh, no. that’s just my vocabulary. Don’t have a word a day calendar.

if you can think of a better word for what I am describing please elucidate (that means to explain).

Don't get all pissy dude...I was impressed! Not many words I need to look up.

 

[fwafwow]

I didn’t get that comparison either. The fact is, the world is a palimpsest, it is literally littered with the remnants of civilizations on top of civilizations on top of civilizations. If every artifact we found was worthy of us stopping and convening a council, civilization would stop. There are boundaries here, but come on.

If I find a wallet, I would return it to the owner. If I find cash on the ground on public land, or an arrowhead, what am I supposed to do? Maybe self flagellate?

I've learned a good bit today from this thread, including a word that I will not only have to look up, but get an audio to know how to say it.

 

[ODB]

Don't get all pissy dude...I was impressed! Not many words I need to look up.

Word.