Non-resident elk hunters breaking point.

velvetfvr

WKR
Joined
May 12, 2012
Messages
700
Location
Nevada
My perspective as a 24 year old that's more new to the game than most. I just know time is limited and hunting opportunities as a NR are just always going to decline. Tomorrow will probably never be as good as today. So it will most likely always cost more and take longer to get a tag out of state. But I want to hunt elk as often as I can since elk hunting is limited in my home state of NV, even as a resident. Right now I will play to hunt montana, wyoming, arizona and utah. New Mexico will also start getting my money too. The goal is to hunt arizona in the rut once, utah in the rut once and then always have a chance for a great tag in new mexico each year. The goal is to hunt as often as I can especially if its rough terrain, because I am only young once. This is the time to do the grueling hunts. So I am all about getting the experience and as I get older, will be ready for more prime quality hunts when my points accumulate. Also I think you cannot as a NR focus on just one species. Maybe the deer tag is easy to get in the elk unit I want. Well if I hunt that unit for deer a few times before I get an elk tag, I can use all those deer hunting trips to scout for elk too since I can log photos and notes on map services.

I look at it as if their is a will, there is a way. So right now not being married, not chasing a family life and focusing on work to increase my income as much will all cover my elk hunting addiction. And that will always be the goal, to make sure I am financially set to hunt. I think in my lifetime if you really wanted to hunt elk, it would be best to financially set yourself up to purchase a landowner tag each year or every couple years. Again its all about priorities and the priorities that matter most to you, you will find a way to fulfill. r

For reference I also purchased a 5 day red stag hunt for $1350 in 2024, but 2024 I probably will already have my wyo and MT general tags (I will draw my MT general tag in 2022, should have the PP for wyoming in 2023). Instead of hunting elk, I will get to chase red stag in the peak rut. Also as the NR game gets expensive, many more different out of country hunts are getting closer in price too. So the plan might be on the years I am sure I may not have an elk tag, maybe that is when I go chase a red stag or do some sort of other hunt if I can score a deal. Or have years dedicated to hunting deer, elk or other species. Longer quality hunts instead of many shorter hunts also is probably the move.

Lastly, that's where application services like gohunt and epic outdoors are critical. I think the hunter that starts planning out his points/ hunts 5 to 10 years in advance, studies the draw systems of each state, watches the draw and app trends will be able to secure hunting opportunity. Hunting as a NR just added another step in my opinion. which is instead of being able to hunt smarter, you now have to put in the work of reading the data and apply smarter along with hunting smarter and budgeting smarter.
 

mavinwa2

WKR
Joined
Sep 11, 2018
Messages
538
Location
Res WA ST, winter>Gilbert AZ , NR>AZ, UT, NM, CO.
to Velvetfvr's point:
"Lastly, that's where application services like gohunt and epic outdoors are critical. I think the hunter that starts planning out his points/ hunts 5 to 10 years in advance, studies the draw systems of each state, watches the draw and app trends will be able to secure hunting opportunity. Hunting as a NR just added another step in my opinion. which is instead of being able to hunt smarter, you now have to put in the work of reading the data and apply smarter along with hunting smarter and budgeting smarter."

Indeed, hunt application sites have changed the game.
25-30 years ago, I could only afford the time and expense for 1 out of state elk hunt each year in addition to my resident state each year. Man, the research I would do; countless hours, writing letters, obtaining copies hunt regs, reports from bio's, evaluating winter kill & all thru snail mail...everything was so hard to obtain back then.
But the person who put in the hard work & time often drew the most tags. Which I did back then but again tags and NR limitations were not what they are today.

Now a few clicks, an hour's+ worth of time and GoHunt or other similar resources you have your application information slick quick. Therein lies another problem, SO DOES ANYONE ELSE USING THESE APPS.
Levels, lumps the competition together by ease of today's mentality of get it quick & now.
Thus, everyone is applying, let's say more effectively and efficiently....Me too!
And darn harder to draw any NR elk tags as well. 15years since NM drawn, 19 since AZ drawn, never drawn UT 20yrs, and last 2 years nada for Idaho archery, ID NR is aggravating with recent online OTC process adaptation.

Young fellas, plan & play the preference points games now as Velvetfvr suggests!
At my age, a AZ, UT, CO premier elk tag is truly OIL !!
Thankful I'll have a shot for a NM elk tag every year, but what a LONG shot it is.

and to this thread, my NR breaking point....
when they pry my bow from my dead, stiff hands! Speaking of which, if I ever have advance notice my time has come, if able, I'm going elk hunting period. Played the NR $point$ BS game long enough. No more to be said.
 
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The_Jim

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
172
Location
Nebraska
I think guys that live in the west underplay the benefit they are getting from having so much public land to hunt. If you look at what leases and trespass fees are in other states I think that permit $$$ amount could go really high. I’m not sure what my number is but I am not willing to put myself in financial hardship for a hobby.

Go to landtrust’s website and check out what ranches in my home state of Nebraska charge for a trespass fee. $1000/day and up to hunt a mule deer.

I don’t think the anti-hunters are going to be what ends hunting. Money is…
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2017
Messages
719
Location
Upper Michigan
It makes a lot of sense to make the most of your time and money. Often that means taking advantage of what is right there close to home. I have one out of state hunt that I intend to try, other than that I’m going to stay close. I’d love to do another AK sheep hunt but I’ll wait until I get a good opportunity to move back. If that never happens I’m perfectly happy with “loving the one I’m with”.
My wife and I redid our budget this weekend. We live pretty frugal, well under our means...I think I'll probably doing cow tags within an occasional bull hunt for the next few years. We're looking way ahead on finances, I gotta think the people with big houses and two car payments are gonna crash and burn if things don't change. I think the western boys are gonna be back in the good old days pretty soon.
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2021
Messages
34
I waited 18 years to draw the tag I gor this year as a resident in NM. A mature bull rifle tag in a great unit. Actually I have never been able to hunt a bull elk with a rifle and I have been putting in for I believe 20 years. Land owner unit wide tags in this unit fo for 28k and they don't even obey by the rules. They are supposed to have an open gate policy. They lock rhe gates cutting off huge chunks of private and public land. They pokevt the 20k and the outfitters put another 8k on it. Believe it or not they sell like hot cakes. Gone in hours. Still waiting to go up north of me and hunt in nice deer country. That's the game and resident or none resident we all play it. I look a map of Texas and all the huge private ranches no public land at all or maybe what 3% of the state. Not picking on Texas, but I have no public land opportunities there. So I don't feel bad for them if they can't draw in my home state.
 

blackdawg

WKR
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
539
There have been about about 14 guys from my county in TN heading west for the last 5-6 years, this year with rising costs for fuel, tags, etc., not to mention difficulty of drawing tags only 4 are heading west this year. I think a couple discovered how difficult it is to be successful as a DIY guy out west, it’s not a Primos video !


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Bighorner

WKR
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Messages
562
Heck it wouldn’t even have to cost the state any money. It would be great if they would allow point holders to sell their position. Think of the folks that have been putting in for sheep for 25-30 years that can’t physically get it done now. Let them sell their point position to another hunter. Limit it to the number of points multiplied by the current cost of a point in that state. Nobody gets rich. But people who want out can get out.

I can certainly understand why that's appealing, but the result would be point creep on a scale we havent seen yet. It has been brought up and shut down.
 

Scoot

WKR
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Messages
1,536
To me is less about the cost of the tag than it is availability of tags. If western states are only going to give a really tiny slice of the pie to DIY guys and show clear preference to ridiculous things like outfitter welfare, unit wide landowner tags, etc., I'll say F em and move on to other things.
 

bozeman

WKR
Joined
Dec 5, 2016
Messages
2,670
Location
Alabama
Do you think if its gets too expensive, more poaching will take place? The attitude of 'whatever, I will go hunt if I want to, on public land'? Honest question.
 

Scoot

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Nov 13, 2012
Messages
1,536
Do you think if its gets too expensive, more poaching will take place? The attitude of 'whatever, I will go hunt if I want to, on public land'? Honest question.
For the last handful of years, every single year I've told my buddy something like, "Screw it, let's just go hunt any damn place we want. It'll be cheaper to pay the fine when we get caught than it is to pay states blood money every year in hopes of hunting a decade or two from now." I'm mostly joking when I say it! As I alluded to above, with more and more tags going to welfare recipients of the state (whose associations are in bed with the law makers BTW), less and less is available to regular ol' DIY hunters and it makes it tough to want to play the game fairly. My view of outfitter associations, outfitters, and lawmakers has been heavily influenced to the negative in the past few years.

Sorry I keep beating this same drum, but it's relevant to the question asked and it's just plain wrong...
 

elkhuntrr75

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
May 4, 2017
Messages
167
Location
Broken Arrow, OK
For the last handful of years, every single year I've told my buddy something like, "Screw it, let's just go hunt any damn place we want. It'll be cheaper to pay the fine when we get caught than it is to pay states blood money every year in hopes of hunting a decade or two from now." I'm mostly joking when I say it! As I alluded to above, with more and more tags going to welfare recipients of the state (whose associations are in bed with the law makers BTW), less and less is available to regular ol' DIY hunters and it makes it tough to want to play the game fairly. My view of outfitter associations, outfitters, and lawmakers has been heavily influenced to the negative in the past few years.

Sorry I keep beating this same drum, but it's relevant to the question asked and it's just plain wrong...

Have you ever heard of the Prince of Poachers Charles Beaty. He is a very entertaining podcast guest.


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Joined
Jan 30, 2020
Messages
385
The situation sort of sucks. On one hand I have a relatively good paying job so if less people can afford tags then I can go every year as a nonresident. Inflation is very real in the tag world too so i can't blame a state like Montana raising prices. If you have double the people applying as you do tags it only makes sense to raise prices just until the point they sell out. The country is going to correct itself with work load and less spending for the next few years so I think its a matter of time before Idaho and Montana have surplus tags again. Before 2018 alot of tags didn't even sell out. You also have a very large generation of guys that are 60 plus about to retire taking that once in a lifetime trip out west skewing numbers as well.

I grew up out west and if I could I would move back, but my wife prefers Virginia. Right now there is no better time to find a new job/ career and good chances you can take an increase in pay as well. So if your dream is to hunt every year for cheap you should move while you have the opportunity. on the other side of the coin if you live on the east coast and you have Disney world/myrtle beach/Washington dc/cruise ports/and Smokey mountains all within an 8 hour drive the cost of a diy solo hunt out west is probably cheaper than flying the entire family cross country for a vacation some years.

side note i will also admit that spending $100 this morning for a montana pref point does hit hard. lol
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
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395
Location
Iowa
~$100 a pp

1-4 years

I'm not worried though, your states fish and wildlife dept is too greedy to not let NRs in.

Complaining about the "welfare system" of NR tag drawing while recreating on federally owned public lands is a real chicken shit take.
 

Scoot

WKR
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Messages
1,536
Complaining about the "welfare system" of NR tag drawing while recreating on federally owned public lands is a real chicken shit take.
Please explain what you mean, Treestand. The welfare system I was referring to is in regards to the outfitters getting tags allocated only to them, rather than to NR applicants who could (but don't have to) hire guides. Is that the take you are suggesting is chicken shit?
 

Weldor

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Joined
Apr 20, 2022
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1,148
Location
z
I agree 100%. I drive a 1998 surburban and have a driveway full of junk trucks I work on regularly. Could I afford a new truck. Yes . Does $70,000 make sense for new one. Not to me. The above 3 questions were about a non-residents threshold to reconsider your investment in elk hunting. Thanks . Interesting to hear everyone's opinions
I would love to know where to get a new truck for $70k LOL Their 100k around here! Can't beat Elk huntin.
 
Joined
May 26, 2022
Messages
303
I would love to know where to get a new truck for $70k LOL Their 100k around here! Can't beat Elk huntin.
I saw a 1995 F150 that was pretty well beat but no rust on sale for $8,000 a few weeks ago. Car prices have gone insane.
 

tracker12

WKR
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Messages
1,010
Been traveling out West to Elk, deer and Anteople hunt since the late 70's. Had a bunch of great times. Pulled limited big game tags in CO, WY and UT. Well I have a few more points to use up in the next few years and then the point game is done for me. I'll just buy a LO tag and go hunt. I have my kids inheritance money to spend.
 

mitchellmountain

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
239
I make a real good living, and I really like to hunt out west. But I'll be honest it's getting harder to justify the expense of tags, travel and time. I love the experience more than the kill, at least I'm finding that to be more the case as I'm getting older. I'm one of those eastern guys that hunts out west every year that sees that time coming to a close in the not too distant future. It really does feel like it's becoming more of a rich man's game, and even if I can afford it honestly it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Still will be going out west every year but I can see me not carrying a rifle with me in the a few years or at least not as often. And I know I'm not alone in those feelings.
 
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