Shrek's 6.5 saum build

[KMD]

Reality is that it's all in my head but reality is that what's in my head controls me just like it does everyone else.

No, it doesn't.

Many of us allow facts & good data from trusted sources to factor into our decision making.

For the last time, things are only as hard as you wanna make them.
More & more guys are successfully killing big deer and elk with 130s & 140s as seasons progress.
Heck, I just blew a 130 HVLD thru two deer, myself. Couldn't be happier with the terminal performance...
Exit on doe @ 265yds

Exit on buck @ 655yds

Almost identical passthrus, despite the disparity in range & impact velocity. That's the kind of results that make my head happy!
The proof is always in the pudding...

I wish you the best of luck with trying to get your rifle to conform to your what your head wants it to, rather than the other (logical) way around.

 

[msalm]

KMD is on point here. Look at the SD of the 130/140 6.5's vs you 150gr 7mm's. I don't know,off hand, but if bet there similar or more likely better. Hell, pick up some 127gr LRX's if you want to be assured of penetration. I think shooting a bullet that gives you the accuracy you're looking for will offset any misgivings of that heavy, finicky bullet your fighting now. JMO here, but try a different bullet before you're just completely soured on what is most likely a killer rifle!

 

[brushape]

My powder guy has several pounds of retunbo for sale right now and he is willing to ship

 

[Shrek]

KMD and msalm , the 2975 fps is with 142gr bullets and I have a longer throat and oal than the 6.5 4s chamber. There's a problem somewhere because I should be able to get past 3100fps with a max pressure load of H1000 in a 25.75" barrel with that weight bullet. I didn't load the rounds with Retumbo yet but I wiil soon. I will probably pull the barrel and lengthen the throat out the rest of the way and try to find a couple of pieces of another batch of brass to try. 2975 fps is unacceptable with a 142gf bullet from a rsaum case. I'm still thinking it's a particularly soft batch of brass as I can't think of another good explanation except a undersized bore.

 

[msalm]

Try a 140 berger, there's less bearing surface than those pills you're loading and you'll probably see the velocity you are looking for. That's part of what we're telling you, you are shooting an unknown entity. I don't think it's your brass.

 

[NBK1]

...

 

[Shrek]

I've set this down since I have been home from hunting . I've found some Retumbo but I haven't bought the Berger 6.5 140gr vlds I want to try. When 6.5 saum didn't do what I wanted it to do I kind of lost interest. I have a 7mm wsm in the works and I'll pick this back up when I start to work on the 7mm wsm.

 

[GKPrice]

Shrek - I've never done anything with the 6.5 but in 7mm over the years I've had 2 custom barrels from very reputable companies that were just slow .... no matter what I tried they would not give me the results they should have, it made no sense to me but it was the way it was - one was a PacNor which are ALWAYS good barrels, I sent it back to Chris and he checked it and sent it back with no negative findings, still would not shoot any decent velocities (or accuracy) with anything I tried - I finally just scrapped it and checked it off to "barrel demons" (it made a really nice screw jack handle), the next 2 - 7mm barrels were fine, as were all the 338 barrels I've ever had done - sometimes ya gotta say uncle ..........

 

[Shrek]

GMPrice , I may just yank the barrel and make the action something else of maybe another 6.5 SAUM. I don't know yet. I'm hoping the 7mm WSM works out and that will relieve all pressure to make the 6.5 work. I get pressure signs when I clean it so I do suspect the barrel.

 

[Shrek]

While I'm waiting for the 140gr bullets to arrive I loaded up a few 150gr matrix over Retumbo. Since I had no load data available for Retumbo I used what I know about it and it's relative pressure to H1000 and went with a load that would be very safe and started from there. Went up to 60grs and 2838 fps. That's as high as I had loaded so with that knowledge gained I just finished loading 61grs to 65grs of Retumbo under some more 150 gr Matrix to see. I suspect I won't get to 65 grs but I'll have it on hand.
Question for the more experienced loaders , what effect does neck tension have on pressure and velocity ? I've got I think three thousandths neck tension and I'm wondering if I shouldn't turn a thousandth off the necks. I was reading a comment in an article on accurate shooter where one of the world class long range competitors shooting a WSM was running five thousandths clearance and getting better accuracy. Just a thought as I'm going to be prepping all the fired brass soon.

 

[TheJuice]

Shrek, what signs do you notice or look for when cleaning a barrel that are pressure indicators? I just started reloading this summer and learning as much as I can. Thanks

 

[Shrek]

Nothing cleaning the barrel. The cases and primers tell most of the tail and extractor marks are way too far. If you have a chronograph then the velocity gains start to tail off and if you are working with known published loads and you are getting significantly higher velocity than you would expect then that would be worrisome. If you get heavy bolt lift is another big red flag. If you are working up as you should you can watch the primers start to loose their rounded edges and that's about as far as I want to go usually.Without a strain gauge it's all a guessing game . I'm aggressive enough that I've blown a primer or two and had some heavy bolt lifts so having been to the edge I've developed a pretty good feel of when to quit so I don't go there . Rule numder one is wear glasses so hot gas from a primer blowing doesn't burn an eye. Follow publish loads. This is a wildcat and there isn't published loads and these bullets I've been using aren't commonly used so there is really very little for me to work with on this. This wildcat work is new to me. I've always had standard chamberings before now so there was lots of published data to work from.

 

[TheJuice]

GMPrice , I may just yank the barrel and make the action something else of maybe another 6.5 SAUM. I don't know yet. I'm hoping the 7mm WSM works out and that will relieve all pressure to make the 6.5 work. I get pressure signs when I clean it so I do suspect the barrel.

Got it. This post made me think you looked for signs when you cleaned your barrel. Thanks for the clarification.
The only pressure signs I have noticed before are light extractor marks. Mostly shiny marks, not the brass smeared marks I've seen pics of.

 

[Shrek]

Shiny marks are plenty hot . I just haven't gotten the velocity that I had expected but I'm using heavier bullets with more bearing surface than most guys who shoot this use. I've got more common 140gr bullets coming so I can see where I am compared to others and know if I just have a slow barrel or too much bullet for my expectations. I have a 7mm wsm being built and that will shoot some 168gr bullets and I'll drop this back to 140gr bullets. Doesn't really matter though. They'll both kill anything I'm hunting dead as a hammer.

 

[brushape]

Got my barrel in, barrel nut wrench, 1000 bullets in 4 types, 5 pounds of h1000 and 100 Norma brass whenever class is over the fun will begin I'm very excited my 30-06 is going to hate me

 

[Shrek]

Very cool !

 

[Shrek]

I worked with the Retumbo and 150gr Matrix today and it looks good. Went all the way to 65grs of Retumbo and got to 3070 fps. Primers still looked ok but there was a tiny shiny spot at 64 grs and a little bigger extractor mark at 65 grs. Going to play between 63grs and 64grs and see what I can find for accuracy and velocity. If I can get a load that averages 3000fps+ and at or under. 5 MOA I'll be satisfied.

 

[TheJuice]

Great! Hope it works out. It'd be a shame to trash that barrel after all you've been through with that thing.

 

[Shrek]

I'm thinking that the H1000 was too fast for the weight of bullet and the 26" barrel. Retumbo is working much better and I may have to try RL33 next.

 

[Shrek]

For the guys with experience with this round are you using magnum or standard primers ? I'm wondering if I could reduce both the pressure and extreme spread with a standard primer lighting the Retumbo. I have both cci 200 and 250 on hand and have been using the 250's so far. Any experienced opinions want to share theirs ?