Shrek's 6.5 saum build

[Shrek]

Sweet ! New bullets arrived while I was out. It's a new bottle of H1000 and it's apparently a good bit hotter. I'm going to back off a little and see if things come back to sanity. I took the rifle out of the stock and checked everything. Tightened the windage screws more and ran the elevation and windage against a target and it tracked well. I shot some more and realized I'm getting extractor marks and it's printing four inch groups at 225 yards.
7-08 restored confidence . It's also a new bottle and I used an older load accidentally and added a tenth of a grain. 3 clicks and three shots later it's dead on at 225 yards. I'm putting off leaving a day and going to see what I can do. I'd kill for some Retumbo right now !

 

[Shrek]

Msalm , thanks for the thoughts and info. I'm going to cut back a whole grain and see what happens.
JOMS , I wish I had a safe full but I'm far from wealthy so my safe is mostly empty. The 7mm wsm is gone now and I went all in on this rifle. The 7-08 is my whitetail rifle but I won't hesitate to take it if needed. With the extra tenth grain I'm right at 2900fps with a 140gr berger vld hunter. Sould do the job if I do mine and I have a lot of confidence in it. I won't take a shoulder shot that would hit big bone and keep the range down to under 350 yards and I should be fine. Hopefully a 61.5 grain load will work.

Edit : I punched the numbers and the 7-08 has plenty to 450 yards . Using atmospherics expected where I'm going it should have 2253 fps and 1573 ftlbs at 450 yards.

 

[Shrek]

I'm just a little hard headed and msalm is right. I keep trying to pound an oversized square peg into a undersized round hole. I just threw away 30 pieces of the most beautifully prepared brass because the primer pockets were blown. Pulled and reloaded the last ten from the batch at 60.5 and 61 grains. Hoping it works out in the morning.

 

[KMD]

I'm confused.
Which 140gr bullets were you "fireforming" with?
You have a hunt fast approaching?
Whatever ya do, I'd strongly recommend NOT RUSHING to develop a load!
If things ain't working out, WALK AWAY and start from scratch...

This is why doing a ladder test for pressure is STEP #1 in load development.
Pick a powder & bullet, use a consistant c.o.a.l.
Set a charge weight range to test, beginning 10% below expected max. charge.
Find pressure threshold, note group dispersion & chrono for velocity. If accuracy and/or speed is lacking, pick a different powder and start over...

By picking arbitrary charges off the internet to apply to a larger bullet, you're chasing your tail. It happens all the time, and some get lucky & find a good load by doing so. But given you're in relatively uncharted waters here with the 150s from a wildcat 6.5, it would behoove you to start at the start and not grab at straws...

I have a few buds who used my 'smith and GAP 4s reamer, and to a one...they've all had to find their own "sweet spot". One dude's rifle LOVES the 130s, but won't shoot a 140Hybrid for chit. The other's LOVES 140VLDs, but not the 140 Hybrids, or the 130s...go figure? Mine prefers 140JLKs over the 130VLDs, but the 130s are still solid <.75moa. But the 140s are rockin' less than 1/2moa vertical out to 700yds. That's what I like to see, for a rifle I'll hunt with at that range...

Just sayin' that I honestly feel you've gotten your cart in front of your horse, with respect to loading for this rifle. I've done it myself in the past, cramming to load for a big p-dog shoot in Wyoming. Wound up dang near blowing up my brand new rifle out on the hot prairie, compliments of a hastily developed load. So, learn from my mistake and DON'T RUSH when you're building a tiny bomb that explodes 4" from your face...

Take a step back, start fresh and do it right this time.

If all you've got around is H1000, pick up some different 130s and 140s to try. George @ GAP recently whacked a lope @ 1575yds with his 6.5 & 140JLKs. Given their .640 G1 b.c. BELIEVE ME, you ain't losing anything to a 150Matrix at hunting ranges.

If you're headed out for a hunt, I wish you a safe & fun trip! Grab a trusted rifle and don't beat your head against the wall over the 6.5. Start fresh when ya get back, and I'm confident you'll find a sweet shootin' load to prove out and enjoy in the future...

 

[Shrek]

KMD , that is what I did to get to the 62.5 gr load. It had been a one powder and bullet test that I started ar 58.5 grains and went up to 63.5 grains where I hit pressure signs and the group went crazy. The best velocity and group was at 62.5. I loaded up some there and 63.3. Settled on 62.5 and was giong to do a final sight in and velocity test . I ran out of the batch of H1000 I was using and opened a new can to load the final bunch and it all went to chit with over pressure and crazy grouping. The .884 moa wasn't great but I could live with it until I could work on it more.

 

[msalm]

"""First shot at 60.5 gr leaves a very heavy bolt lift and an extractor mark . WTF ! Send a second one because I'm slow like that and the same thing . Pack up and head home . Make another set starting at 58 gr and going to 59.5gr. Drive the 25 miles back out to where I shoot and the first shot has very heavy bolt lift and an extractor mark and it's 200fps slower ! I send a second and the bolt is a little heavy but no mark and 30fps faster. From there I fire the rest with no pressure and climb steady with the velocity. Last three averaged 2921 with an extreme spread of 13 and sd of 6.5"""

IMO with 150's your STARTING loads were already at max using NORMA brass...in fact that might be generous as you were getting heavy bolt lift at 58 too but you ignored those signs and drove on.... I'd go to the 140gr or even 127 LRX and stop chasing that gnat's ass of a BC figure....raw accuracy is more important IMO....

 

[Justin Crossley]

I don't see a benefit to the 150 myself at all. They have a very slightly higher BC but are going to be much slower I think.

 

[Shrek]

I'm working on some powder and bullets. Anyone know anything about Winchester 780 .

 

[Shrek]

Well , all the work in the world won't make bullets or powder appear in town . Came home and loaded up a ladder starting at 58 grains behind the 142gr bullets , 58.5 , 59 , 59.5 , and 60. First four look almost great. First two shots at 225 yards touch but then it throws one out at 1.75" then the fourth one is back between at about. 75" from the first two. Could be at the edge of a node or a little hot. 58.5 leaves a faint extractor mark. I quit right there. Came home and carefully pulled them down and dropped them back a little. Trying 57.1 , 57.4 , and 57.7 in the morning. Wish me luck because I need it. Either way I'm packing up and heading out by late afternoon.

 

[JustOneMoreShot]

Good luck. I hope you find a sweet spot or at least something workable to use on the trip before you leave. You will have the time to dedicate to finding the perfect combo when you return.

 

[Shrek]

When I return I'm hunting down some retumbo and seeing if I can make the 150's shoot well and fast enough but the 58 gr load behind 142's showed a lot of promise. Tune it down so it doesn't throw flyers then it's well under a half moa. I would normally really enjoy working through this but being under the gun and handicapped by lack of supplies is stressing me out and I don't think well when I'm stressed. I'm already planning my next project. Maybe a 7mm-300 Dakota ? 8.25 twist to stabilize the long promised 195 burgers . It would make the 180's sizzle. Maybe a 26 nosler to shoot the 160's ?

 

[msalm]

Neither of those mentioned will do much more trajectory wise than your 6.5 other than carry more energy down range it'd be a wash....if I sound slightly jaded on this it's because I've been down this road and have a couple safe's full of the aftermath... Not to dissuade you at all here, but I try to think more of the platform before the caliber, namely what niche do I want to fill, a lightweight, handy rifle I can carry anywhere and still stretch a shot to 6-700 yards, or maybe a dedicated long range rig that may weigh 12 lbs all-up.... Then consider the caliber that will fit in that package and provide the necessary performance. I have been through a lot of them and in fact that has a lot to do with why I bought my lathe and outfitted a shop with the necessary equipment. The work I do for others pays for my toys and I am able to build and play with most anything I care to from dimunitive 17 and 20 cals up to a big 338 big Baer that digests 141gr of H50 bmg and propels a 300gr Matchking up to 3200fps.

I shoot the 200gr accubond in my 30" bbl'd 300 RUM at 3250 and have kills with it out to 1180 yards, a VLD might look better on paper, but that AB shoots great, and performs amazingly well on game. You are fixating yourself on very specialized bullets that can also be a bit finicky when there might be other choices that have been proven to provide very solid results...I say start with those, and THEN play around with a few of the more extreme projectiles and see how they stack up. You'll at least have a great performing combination to fall back on if they don't work as well as hoped... Now this is JUST MY OPINION, and you know what that will get you.

 

[Shrek]

Msalm , I'm wanting a rifle good to 800ish on elk to carry at less than 8.5 lbs and not need a brake to shoot . I run out of tolerance around a heavy 7mm so that's what I'm coming back to. I had myself convinced I could make the 160gr 6.5's fly out of the 6.5 saum at 3000fps but I'm doubting that now. It will end up as a heck of a deer rifle and probably ok for elk but I wanted a little more than the 140's provide.

 

[Tanner]

The notion that 6.5 140 VLDs at 3100fps aren't "enough" for elk is ridiculous to me.

Tanner

 

[Shrek]

Tanner , I agree it's enough but I wanted more than enough at 800 yards. I'm working as hard as I can to get this ready to go elk hunting with 142 vlds and I'll have all the confidence in the world if I do my part. If I can't get it dialed in I'll be taking my 7-08 . I don't have magnumitis. I do want to take all the rifle I can stand to carry and shoot though.

 

[msalm]

I busted a mule deer at 375 and a decent bull elk at 500 last year with a 7WSM and 140 Accubonds at 3150fps. Did a good job but if I use that rifle again will look into either the 145 LRX or a traditional 150 gr bullet. The 140 AB did a good job, but didn't exit on a broadside shot behind the shoulder. It was 8" back of a perfect heart shot so was lung/maybe liver, but should have definitely exited IMO. Funny thing is 2nd shot busted the shoulder and was against the hide on far side. Accurate and more than capable of of 800 yds. 25" Rock bbl, stiller tac30, greybull stock, about 8.25 lbs with scope. No brake needed....wanna buy it?

 

[Shrek]

What's the fun of buying someone else's project ? . All the real fun is in the journey not the destination.

 

[msalm]

I use the same thought, only my 'saying' is "the expectation is often greater than the realization" . And on that note, I have two Pierce TI actions in the safe for future builds. One is a long action mag bf, and the other is a short action standard BF. One all-around western hunting rifle in 300 Win Mag, and the other a standard caliber medium game rifle....still dreaming up caliber from a straight 284 Win to possibly a 6.5 something, either Creedmoore or Lapua. Even considering swapping that bolt to a mag and doing another 6.5 RSAUM.....

 

[Shrek]

Expectations are always so high that I'll never be completely satisfied. The rsaum is a winner pushing the 140's and 130's so I can't see me doing a weaker 6.5 anything. 6x47 lapua sounds cool though. Anyone know the magazine lenght of the kimber 8400 wsm action off hand .

 

[tstowater]

Too late for you Shrek, but I was in a gun shop today and was looking at Retumbo powder on the shelf. Thought it was too late to do you any good. Good luck with what you ended up taking on the hunt.