Help!!!! ISO Best Ultralight Solo Bckpacking Tent for hunting

dandurston

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I think 0.75oz DCF fly + 70D silnylon bathrub is a bit mismatched because the floor likely has 2-3x the life of the canopy, but it could be a good match if you camp on rougher surfaces (rock etc).

0.75oz DCF does help substantially with #1 (puncture resistance) which is why besides hail etc, it also holds stitching a lot better. But switching to 0.75oz does almost nothing for issues #2 - #4. Compared to a 1.2oz woven, you give up about 1/3 of the potential weight savings but still have most of the downsides. Another downside of DCF is that snow sticks to it more, so it doesn't shed as well.

I think 0.5oz DCF is the best choice but you have to place a high value on saving weight it to make sense, and then treat it gently, and not expect it to last as long. I'd normally pair that with a 30D floor, because a 0.75oz DCF floor is a huge hit to the lifespan, while heavier DCF doesn't save weight over 30D.
 
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Kevin_t

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I would agree but slightly disagree as well .

I don’t think floors are a great use of DCF. To get the puncture resistance you save very little weight savings and gain pack size . I think in a shelter to save weight a 30d that is not slippery is a good compromise ./ value .

However , regarding snow the more continental snows I think it handles close to as well . Large snows still require some maintaining as they do in a nylon tent as well.

Where I disagree , is I think the weight savings of the heavier .8 or .75 is still worth it on a lot of shelters . A Cimarron in DCF is less than 1.5 lbs . It’s a heck of a lot of shelter for that weight that has shown it can take a lot of abuse .

For the user experience , DCF shelters are great . They have some significant advantages vs a woven but they have some disadvantages as well . They aren’t for the thrifty or value seeker but neither are a lot of things ( high end optics , rifles , bows etc ).


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AK Troutbum

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A bit off topic, as far as the OP’s question, but in regards to silnylon vs. DCF, given the option, I’ll take DCF any day of the week. I agree with the stated pros and cons of the two materials, but I feel like more emphasis should be placed on the fact (very much a pro IMO), that there is little to no stretch with DCF, and also the fact that condensation is much less of an issue with DCF. Regarding the longevity of DCF, I cannot attest to that, but in the 6 years that I’ve been using DCF shelters, exclusively for all my mountain hunts, I have not had a single failure. I am always very conscious of where I pitch my shelter, so I haven’t put them through the paces or abuse that maybe a lot of people do, but I have rode out some pretty severe storms in them, and I feel like they performed much better than the silnylon shelter’s I’ve had in the past, in similar circumstances. DCF does take up a little more space when packed down, but if that is a problem, you can always strap it to the outside of your pack, so as not to take up any space inside. Every material has its limitations and DCF is obviously no exception, but for me the pros far outweigh the cons.


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Mike Islander

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"5X the waterproof rating and 5X tear strength of 30D ripstop. It will hold up to whatever you throw at it. But maybe you know something that I don't. Dyneema is the strongest fiber in the world."

DCF/dyneema does have an extremely high tear strength and is extremely waterproof (when new), but those attributes don't translate to a "bombproof" nor super waterproof tent. DCF has quite a few "achilles heels" which prevent that. These include:
1) It's non-woven so it has low puncture resistance. Decent hail can go right through 0.5oz DCF, as do sharp sticks etc. So it certainly won't "hold up to whatever you can throw at it". It's usually fine but nowhere near as puncture resistant as a 20-30D woven.
2) It has low abrasion resistance because the outer layers are just super light mylar (plastic, basically space blanket stuff) which is easily damaged even though the inner layers are fine. Some companies are using the 0.5 or 0.7oz DCF as floor material, but it's not in the same ballpark for lifespan as a 20-30D woven nylon/poly. Not an issue for the fly unless you end up pitching it rubbing on bushes. The heavier 1 - 1.2oz DCF still doesn't last as long as a 30D nylon floor despite weighing about the same and costing 5x as much.
3) DCF stretches on the diagonal (relative to the dyneema strands), where high loading permanently warps the material. That results in a wrinkly pitch thereafter, like this.
4) As a result of #3, along with torsion from packing it up and strain from general use/winds etc, the outer mylar layers form micro-pinholes/micro-cracks and start to bubble/delaminate over time. So even though the material is highly waterproof when new, it degrades much faster than a woven. A good 30D woven might start out out at 3000mm HH and still tests at 1500 mm a few years later, while DCF might start at 8000mm but can easily test at 200 mm a few years later and leak readily. HH specs for new fabrics are almost always near useless - it's far more about how well it handles wear, which few companies test.

Because of #1 - 4, DCF is very strong but does not make for a tent that is more bombproof/durable/waterproof than a good woven. Companies that make tents in both will normally tell you their woven versions last much longer (e.g. MLD). I like DCF - it's a really cool material - but it should be seen as a compromise between durability and weight, and not as both lighter and tougher, as it is unfortunately marketed. You should only be buying it because you value the weight savings heavily. Otherwise there's not a strong case for it. Compared to a 30D woven, a DCF shelter will be bulkier to pack, shorter lifespan, more prone to puncture/abrasion damage, less waterproof over time, translucent, get spark holes a lot easier, and much more expensive.
That's why I pre-ordered one of your new 2 place tents. 😁
 

dandurston

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I feel like more emphasis should be placed on the fact (very much a pro IMO), that there is little to no stretch with DCF, and also the fact that condensation is much less of an issue with DCF.
What people call stretch often includes two different things, which are (1) actual stretch, and (2) sag. The pros/cons of actual stretch are debatable, as some feel it helps to absorb high forces like tripping over a guyline while others think it's a con because the tent deflects more in the wind and those deflecting panels might shed wind less well. Sag is undoubtedly a negative. Here, nylon absorbs water and expands by about 4% when wet (some formulations are less), where a typical tent might have 150" span over the arch of the tent which can gain up 6" of slack fabric, resulting in all those loose, wrinkly pitches that you see. This is something that DCF is far better at (since it has little stretch and no sag). However polyester also has virtually no sag, so silpoly and DCF have the same big advantage here. That advantage further translates to a big difference in weight, because nylon tents get a lot heavier after rain while poly and DCF don't since there's only water on the outside that can be shaken off.

As for condensation, I think the jury is still out on this one. I suspect DCF does get a bit less condensation due to it being more insulating of a material so air doesn't contract as severely when it hits the wall (partly why you don't get condensation in a house) but at the same time, this difference is hard to detect and there are major manufacturers making tents in both materials who would argue there is no difference in condensation between these materials. The issue is still up for debate. I'm inclined to give DCF a slight advantage here but I don't think it's a big one. In sloppy conditions I get pretty serious condensation with either.
 
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rackcity24

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So is the Dyneema cimarron more durable than the regular cimarron and cimarron light? Is it worth getting versus the other two?
 

Jagger0502

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So is the Dyneema cimarron more durable than the regular cimarron and cimarron light? Is it worth getting versus the other two?
Comparing the two materials for durability the dyneema is much stronger. But it also has its trade offs. There is a video floating around of someone (might be on the SO website) taking a tent stake and trying to puncture each material. It’s interesting to watch him try to puncture this Dyneema material which took a lot of effort then they try to pull the stake to tear it. As you would expect the other did tear but he really struggled to tear dyneema and I think gave up after he got it to somewhat tear a few inches.
The trade offs are price which is expected. I don’t think it holds up to sparks very well or hear from say a stove to close to the sides so you would want to pay more attention to that. It does not pack well. So it will take up more space.

anyone else can correct me if I am wrong but that’s what I came up with in my research.
 

Brk007

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Jul 11, 2020
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I’ve used Big Agnes Fly Creek UL2 for several years. Love the weight and ease of setup. Keeps you dry in a downpour. But very small. Feels like a straight jacket when layering up to head out.

Our group is switching over to a tipi this season. I’ll carry a dst tarp for an occasional spike.
 

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TomJoad

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I’m a big fan of the Big Agnes Scout 2. It’s like a floored vented tarp tent. Trekking pole pitching, sets up in minutes. Perfect size for solo hunts with room for your gear. I have the nylon version at 1lb 5oz including stakes. It’s the size of a nalgene rolled up. There’s a dynema version on sale now ($100 off) at 1lb even all in. This is my top pick for speed and comfort solo. If you’re wanting to spike camp with a stove and go floorless then I’d go Seek Outside
 
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