S&W M&P 10MM

[Mebe007]

Anyone see the new 10mm m&p 2.0. Looks promising to me. I hate the block feel and grip of a glock and love 1911s, however for protection a double stack seems like a better bet. On top of that it has the same grip angle as the 1911. And I wouldn't be worried about beating up a beauty queen 1911. Is it just me, or does it seem that this particular model could bridge a heck of a gap between the glock and 1911 platforms in the limited world of 10mm?

 

[gbflyer]

Looks good. I guess I’m weird but I would like a single stack 10mm that isn’t a 1911. Like a grown up Glock G48.

 

[Mebe007]

Looks good. I guess I’m weird but I would like a single stack 10mm that isn’t a 1911. Like a grown up Glock G48.

I own revolvers and 1911s, oh yeah and a shield lol.

 

[MikeDeltaFoxtrot]

Handguns tend to be a deeply personal thing. We all have different priorities and different levels of training and experience, so it can be difficult to talk about handgun selection online without talking past one another.

I have been seriously training in defensive handgunning for over 20 years. I have been a certified LE firearms instructor in my state. I average at least one professional training class per year. I teach the NRA classes to new people. At one time I held an IDPA expert classification.

There are people who are much faster shooters than me. There are people who are more knowledgable and people who are better instructors. You may be one of them. I don't know, so take this for what it is worth.

I am assuming the reason you want a 10mm handgun is for personal protection in the outdoors. If you want it for some other purpose, then this post won't mean much to you.

In my view, and in the opinion of every trainer I have ever sat under, the overwhelmingly most important quality of a defensive handgun is reliability. If the gun is not 100% reliable, then you should sell or trade it away. That trumps all else.

Once the field is narrowed to guns that run reliably, the next things are probably sights and a manageable trigger. I frequently hear people referring to a handgun having a "good" trigger and what they mean is the lightest, most crisp trigger possible. I don't regard that as optimal for a defensive handgun. You need a certain margin for safety while still keeping it manageable. I like the H&K LEM trigger a lot as a balance. Glock triggers and some of the other strikers like the VP9 are good too.

Sights are important too, but they an be easily changed on most guns these days. I like Ameriglo sights on Glocks and I use Trijicon HD's on my H&K's.

That leaves ergonomics. With all else being equal, I will consider how the pistol fits my hand and how the controls are laid out. I find that many people who are less experienced will want to choose a handgun based on "how it feels in the hand." This is intuitive, and it seems like a way to differentiate between guns if you don't know another way to do so, but it is not very useful. I find that evaluating gun fit and ergonomics is very hard to do without firing the handgun in question. You can learn a lot under recoil. I personally find that bigger and blockier guns with more surface to hang onto are easier to shoot faster and accurately than some of the more svelte models. For example I can run an H&K USP 45 faster than I can an HK45, all else being equal.

All that said, I am of the view that the Glock 20 is the best 10mm auto on the market, and the new M&P offering is not going to change that. The G20 has a very well deserved reputation for being soft shooting and ultra-reliable. It just runs. It has been around for a long time. Mags, holsters, and sights are readily available. Did I mention that it is dead nuts reliable?

The M&P line has a mixed reputation for quality and reliability. It does not really interest me in the least. If you happen to get one that runs and is not subject to any recalls or other upgrades, you will likely find holsters hard to come by. And spare parts should you need them.

Some people like the Sig 220 single action version in 10mm. I have handled but not shot one. It is much heavier than a G20. And it cost a lot more. So if you really have to have a 10mm that is not a Glock, maybe try one.

A couple of years ago, I decided that I just had to have a Colt Delta Elite. I bought one NIB at the LGS. I put about 700 rounds through it. All sorts of ammo. Tried different mags. It never once went a whole box of 50 without a malfunction. So I sold it.

I also have a Ruger GP100 with a 3" barrel chambered in 10mm. It is OK. It runs. But it recoils significantly harder (and thus allows slower followup shots) than my G20. And it only has a 3" tube, so it produced less velocity.

When I go in the woods and want to carry a 10mm, I grab the G20. Every time.

But if you want the M&P, go ahead and get one and report back.

 

[Mebe007]

Handguns tend to be a deeply personal thing. We all have different priorities and different levels of training and experience, so it can be difficult to talk about handgun selection online without talking past one another.

I have been seriously training in defensive handgunning for over 20 years. I have been a certified LE firearms instructor in my state. I average at least one professional training class per year. I teach the NRA classes to new people. At one time I held an IDPA expert classification.

There are people who are much faster shooters than me. There are people who are more knowledgable and people who are better instructors. You may be one of them. I don't know, so take this for what it is worth.

I am assuming the reason you want a 10mm handgun is for personal protection in the outdoors. If you want it for some other purpose, then this post won't mean much to you.

In my view, and in the opinion of every trainer I have ever sat under, the overwhelmingly most important quality of a defensive handgun is reliability. If the gun is not 100% reliable, then you should sell or trade it away. That trumps all else.

Once the field is narrowed to guns that run reliably, the next things are probably sights and a manageable trigger. I frequently hear people referring to a handgun having a "good" trigger and what they mean is the lightest, most crisp trigger possible. I don't regard that as optimal for a defensive handgun. You need a certain margin for safety while still keeping it manageable. I like the H&K LEM trigger a lot as a balance. Glock triggers and some of the other strikers like the VP9 are good too.

Sights are important too, but they an be easily changed on most guns these days. I like Ameriglo sights on Glocks and I use Trijicon HD's on my H&K's.

That leaves ergonomics. With all else being equal, I will consider how the pistol fits my hand and how the controls are laid out. I find that many people who are less experienced will want to choose a handgun based on "how it feels in the hand." This is intuitive, and it seems like a way to differentiate between guns if you don't know another way to do so, but it is not very useful. I find that evaluating gun fit and ergonomics is very hard to do without firing the handgun in question. You can learn a lot under recoil. I personally find that bigger and blockier guns with more surface to hang onto are easier to shoot faster and accurately than some of the more svelte models. For example I can run an H&K USP 45 faster than I can an HK45, all else being equal.

All that said, I am of the view that the Glock 20 is the best 10mm auto on the market, and the new M&P offering is not going to change that. The G20 has a very well deserved reputation for being soft shooting and ultra-reliable. It just runs. It has been around for a long time. Mags, holsters, and sights are readily available. Did I mention that it is dead nuts reliable?

The M&P line has a mixed reputation for quality and reliability. It does not really interest me in the least. If you happen to get one that runs and is not subject to any recalls or other upgrades, you will likely find holsters hard to come by. And spare parts should you need them.

Some people like the Sig 220 single action version in 10mm. I have handled but not shot one. It is much heavier than a G20. And it cost a lot more. So if you really have to have a 10mm that is not a Glock, maybe try one.

A couple of years ago, I decided that I just had to have a Colt Delta Elite. I bought one NIB at the LGS. I put about 700 rounds through it. All sorts of ammo. Tried different mags. It never once went a whole box of 50 without a malfunction. So I sold it.

I also have a Ruger GP100 with a 3" barrel chambered in 10mm. It is OK. It runs. But it recoils significantly hard (and thus allows slower followup shots) than my G20. And it only has a 3" tube, so it produced less velocity.

When I go in the woods and want to carry a 10mm, I grab the G20. Every time.

But if you want the M&P, go ahead and get one and report back.

Whats your opinion on the g40 vs g20?

My main issue I reckon is that I'm so familiar with the 1911 that to me the m&p line seems to feel very similar in the hand. Then getting into everything with glock and the polygon rifling and hardcast issues etc. It makes it difficult to jump in head first as a new caliber. I sealed my fate with I picked up 400 new starline brass the other day.

 

[MikeDeltaFoxtrot]

Whats your opinion on the g40 vs g20?

My main issue I reckon is that I'm so familiar with the 1911 that to me the m&p line seems to feel very similar in the hand. Then getting into everything with glock and the polygon rifling and hardcast issues etc. It makes it difficult to jump in head first as a new caliber. I sealed my fate with I picked up 400 new starline brass the other day.

The guys I know who have g40's like them fine. I'm sure they run, and you'll get more velocity from the longer barrel. But it is a little bigger than I want to carry. I may break down and buy one at some point. Holsters will be hard to come by though. Since the 20 uses the same holsters as the 21, there are plenty of options.

 

[Mebe007]

The guys I know who have g40's like them fine. I'm sure they run, and you'll get more velocity from the longer barrel. But it is a little bigger than I want to carry. I may break down and buy on at some point. Holsters will be hard to come by though. Since the 20 uses the same holsters as the 21, there are plenty of options.

Understood. Literally all there is locally available are 3 g20s, 1 g40 mos (could run a rmr), and 1 kimber camp guard 10 (did I say I love 1911s, although kimber qc seems to have faded) that's kind of where and why I got hung up on the m&p unfortunately no where to try before you but around here. So it's either stay in familiar territory of finger f em at the store and make a decision

 

[MikeDeltaFoxtrot]

Understood. Literally all there is locally available are 3 g20s, 1 g40 mos (could run a rmr), and 1 kimber camp guard 10 (did I say I love 1911s, although kimber qc seems to have faded) that's kind of where and why I got hung up on the m&p unfortunately no where to try before you but around here. So it's either stay in familiar territory of finger f em at the store and make a decision

That Kimber camp guard is pretty smooth looking. I think you are right about the QC. Based on my experience with Kimber, you are liable to have to do work to it to get it run reliably. I own one Kimber (an Ultra Carry II), and I had to replace the extractor to get it to work. And the mags. Kimber sent me the extractor for free.

 

[Mebe007]

That Kimber camp guard is pretty smooth looking. I think you are right about the QC. Based on my experience with Kimber, you are liable to have to do work to it to get it run reliably. I own one Kimber (an Ultra Carry II), and I had to replace the extractor to get it to work. And the mags. Kimber sent me the extractor for free.

That's mybonly concern, do I stay familiar territory with a gun that may need work or to go back to kinber to be reliable. Also.......she's gorgeous and doesn't necessarily have a woods gun appeal although it it's a tool albeit fancy. However at $1300, it isn't cheap, however hard cast should be fine out the gate and it does have night sights

 

[Fatcamp]

Way too many stories of poor function in Kimber guns for me to bite.

Glock is always the answer IMO, but my wife has used M&P in both 9 and .40 over the last few years for USPSA and they have been flawless. If the grip fit better I wouldn't hesitate.

 

[Mebe007]

Way too many stories of poor function in Kimber guns for me to bite.

Glock is always the answer IMO, but my wife has used M&P in both 9 and .40 over the last few years for USPSA and they have been flawless. If the grip fit better I wouldn't hesitate.

That's kind of where I was mentally. Basically a double stack with a 1911 grip angle. I jumped on a pre-order for the 4.6" then started back pedaling that maybe I should switch to the 4".....then I ask questions and find myself back at the glock but then I don't want to have to swap barrels etc. Cast lead for me is a given, as I cast my own. It just seems that the m&p could be a great option out of the box.

The grizzly protection is my excuse for purchasing another weapon lol, however I have time before I get to that point. Still building points out west, and I live in va. We have plenty of big black bears but honestly I've never been worried about them.

Then I get hung back up on a 1911, however I really feel this whole debate would be over if and only if a Dan wesson specialist fell in my lap for a GOOD price

 

[Fatcamp]

That's kind of where I was mentally. Basically a double stack with a 1911 grip angle. I jumped on a pre-order for the 4.6" then started back pedaling that maybe I should switch to the 4".....then I ask questions and find myself back at the glock but then I don't want to have to swap barrels etc. Cast lead for me is a given, as I cast my own. It just seems that the m&p could be a great option out of the box.

The grizzly protection is my excuse for purchasing another weapon lol, however I have time before I get to that point. Still building points out west, and I live in va. We have plenty of big black bears but honestly I've never been worried about them.

Then I get hung back up on a 1911, however I really feel this whole debate would be over if and only if a Dan wesson specialist fell in my lap for a GOOD price

I fully support your purchase of the Dan Wesson. If you have a wife who is on the fence let her know it's OK with me.

 

[RWA13]

I have a full sized M&P as well as a couple of shields, and I am looking forward to the M&P10mm.

If you are looking for Glock reliability with a better grip angle you should take a look at the Lone Wolf Timberwolf frames. I bought one to put on my G20 because I hate Glock ergonomics and it has made a world of difference in how much I enjoy shooting my G20.

 

[Mebe007]

I have a full sized M&P as well as a couple of shields, and I am looking forward to the M&P10mm.

If you are looking for Glock reliability with a better grip angle you should take a look at the Lone Wolf Timberwolf frames. I bought one to put on my G20 because I hate Glock ergonomics and it has made a world of difference in how much I enjoy shooting my G20.

yet another wrench lol. i looked on there site a couple weeks ago about building a ground up 10mm lol. then i stopped.

what issues were known with m&p other than the .357 sig couldnt handle itsself? now that is a concern when you compare 9mm, 40s&w and .45acp saami pressures to those of the .357sig and 10mm auto.

i want to really like the M&P 10 and actually had put one on preorder, however im the kind of guy that talks myself into something, then back out of it then if i can talk myself back into it then i follow through. I can cancel my preorder without penalty so no big deal, i put my name on one.

ive always thought glock meant block. went in with an open mind on the G20 and it just felt chunky and club like. honestly had that kimber 1911 10mm not been there id have bought the G20.....honestly. however it got my mind back on why i love the 1911 so much and then that got me looking elsewhere from the glock. not really a fair comparsion imho between the two in feel. however with that being said im lost now, spinning mentally more like it. do i have to make a decision now.....well to keep my m&p 10 order in or to cancel yeah sure i should do that soon. however im not rushed to purchase anything but i Want something

 

[Mebe007]

I fully support your purchase of the Dan Wesson. If you have a wife who is on the fence let her know it's OK with me.

the hard part is finding one that hasnt been run to death with a new price tag.

 

[RWA13]

yet another wrench lol. i looked on there site a couple weeks ago about building a ground up 10mm lol. then i stopped.

what issues were known with m&p other than the .357 sig couldnt handle itsself? now that is a concern when you compare 9mm, 40s&w and .45acp saami pressures to those of the .357sig and 10mm auto.

i want to really like the M&P 10 and actually had put one on preorder, however im the kind of guy that talks myself into something, then back out of it then if i can talk myself back into it then i follow through. I can cancel my preorder without penalty so no big deal, i put my name on one.

ive always thought glock meant block. went in with an open mind on the G20 and it just felt chunky and club like. honestly had that kimber 1911 10mm not been there id have bought the G20.....honestly. however it got my mind back on why i love the 1911 so much and then that got me looking elsewhere from the glock. not really a fair comparsion imho between the two in feel. however with that being said im lost now, spinning mentally more like it. do i have to make a decision now.....well to keep my m&p 10 order in or to cancel yeah sure i should do that soon. however im not rushed to purchase anything but i Want something

If the M&P10mm would have been available when I was 10mm shopping I probably would have bought it instead of the G20. I haven't had any reliability problems with mine and I love how they fit in my hand vs Glocks. That Timberwolf frame made the G20 feel 100% better and I shoot it better as a result. They are hard to commit to when you can't go to a gun store and feel one out though.

 

[Mebe007]

If the M&P10mm would have been available when I was 10mm shopping I probably would have bought it instead of the G20. I haven't had any reliability problems with mine and I love how they fit in my hand vs Glocks. That Timberwolf frame made the G20 feel 100% better and I shoot it better as a result. They are hard to commit to when you can't go to a gun store and feel one out though.

i can understand that completely. what sucks is i want this kimber because well, it feels amazing and well realisticly i have quite a few 1911 holsters.. however is it worth the chance of having to send it back in to kimber. again this isnt something i need its a want. will i ever end up in grizz country period, well who knows but i am building points in montana. lord i am all over the place.

 

[Mebe007]

with the m&p 10mm what would you go with size wise the 4.6" or the 4" i shose the fullsize 4.6" for preorder thinking there wasnt much difference in lengths and weight so might as well get a little more velocity and sight radious although moot if i put an RMR on it. Anyone use the rmr for carry/ hunting?

 

[Mebe007]

Just talked with Ivory Holsters on the M&P 2.0 10MM and he said he plans to put out a holster to fit this particular model and make it compatible with the RMR optic. So this is great news. Now i doubt my pre-order will ship anytime soon, so i think ill just sit and stew for a while. for my needs the M&P will suit my needs, however i will continue to be on the hunt for a Dan Wesson Specialist because.......ive always wanted one. I think i need to remove the kimber from my mind all together, just too much negative associated with it especially for the cost.

now......... what would yall have chosen in this platform the 4" or the 4.6"

i had pre-ordered the 4.6" for the reason of a little better sight radius, a little more weight which should lead to more control, and i have no intent of concealing it, and it more closely matched most guys pick of the glock 20 in barrel length.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I'd never buy an M&P of any sort. Thats me though. Buy whatever you like.