The Truth about OTC in CO

[Poser]

Stumbled across the video with only 2500 views.

 

[Poser]

I think the guy makes some good points overall, however:

With his dismissal of light gear, I think that he is an inexperienced camper/backpacker. In order for UL gear to be comfortable, you have to go through some stages of getting comfortable. You come out of the gate with a single pole tarp, you’re not going to be comfortable. That’s all there is to it. So, dismissing UL gear as being a significant advantage is mistake. On the other hand, you don’t need fancy stuff to hunt elk, so I agree with that sentiment, however, if you want to backpack hunt, you need ample experience backpacking.

“I’m in shape, I’m in marathon shape. I’m strong”.

I get so tired of this. Running doesn’t mean shit. It doesn’t translate well to elk hunting and it’s an extremely one dimensional measurement of fitness that really only translates to running. I don’t give a shit if you run marathons, that doesn’t mean you are in good shape for hunting. I don’t run, haven’t ran in years, have no intentions of running unless I need to escape.

As describing himself as “strong”, he’s not big enough to be strong. He’s a skinny dude and I don’t think he has an understanding of strength, which is not surprising if he runs marathons. Marathon runners are seldom strong. If a person wants to get in shape, running is not a good ROI. It’s just not.

 

[Will_m]

If a person wants to get in shape, running is not a good ROI. It’s just not.

Well, what is a good ROI short of doing the targeted activity itself?

 

[Trr15]

You know its interesting that you mention distance running doesn't equate to being in hunting/mountain shape. I've experimented with a lot of sports and fitness routines over the years. Did a lot of running, HIIT, etc. Leading up to last fall, I focused almost exclusively on strength training (a combination of high intensity bodybuilding workouts and powerlifting). I did very little cardio for close to a year, including leading up to hunting season. At 40 years old, i was probably the strongest I'd been at any point in my life, and carried more muscle mass than I had even in my 20s. I was really expecting my cardio to be a weakness when I was hunting, but I ended up feeling like i was in best hunting shape I'd ever been in. It honestly surprised me and seemed counterintuitive. Still does. I hunted hard for 5 days, packed out an elk on the last day of the season. Had one of the hardest pack outs in recent memory and while it took me a few days to feel fully recovered, i bounced back quickly.

 

[Poser]

Well, what is a good ROI short of doing the targeted activity itself?

Strength training. Because it’s a general adaptation.

That’s not to say that you don’t need to hike with a pack, because you do. Also, “strength training” should not be confused with powerlifting (that’s a sport), bodybuilding or hypertrophy type training for aesthetics. It also should not be confused with exercising. “Strength training” is training to make the body stronger. “Training” is a systematic and logical progression. “Exercise” is doing something random to get sweaty.

 

[WoodrowCall]

I watched this video. Didn’t care for his dismal and negative outlook. Sounded to me like he either wasn’t realistic of expectations or wasn’t mentally prepared for the undertaking...

 

[Will_m]

You know its interesting that you mention distance running doesn't equate to being in hunting/mountain shape. I've experimented with a lot of sports and fitness routines over the years. Did a lot of running, HIIT, etc. Leading up to last fall, I focused almost exclusively on strength training (a combination of high intensity bodybuilding workouts and powerlifting). I did very little cardio for close to a year, including leading up to hunting season. At 40 years old, i was probably the strongest I'd been at any point in my life, and carried more muscle mass than I had even in my 20s. I was really expecting my cardio to be a weakness when I was hunting, but I ended up feeling like i was in best hunting shape I'd ever been in. It honestly surprised me and seemed counterintuitive. Still does. I hunted hard for 5 days, packed out an elk on the last day of the season. Had one of the hardest pack outs in recent memory and while it took me a few days to feel fully recovered, i bounced back quickly.

Definitely not disputing this, nor trying to hijack this thread but I feel like there are people that have this story on both sides of the argument. I think it’s an interesting topic but can’t say I’ve actually tried them both to go apples to apples for a comparison. I think @mtwarden just did some sort of endurance race in the bob. Maybe he could share his opinion?
Also interesting vid. Agree and disagree on some points but I think the guy just wanted some face time on a catchy topic.

 

[Trr15]

Strength training. Because it’s a general adaptation.

That’s not to say that you don’t need to hike with a pack, because you do. Also, “strength training” should not be confused with powerlifting (that’s a sport), bodybuilding or hypertrophy type training for aesthetics. It also should not be confused with exercising. “Strength training” is training to make the body stronger. “Training” is a systematic and logical progression. “Exercise” is doing something random to get sweaty.

If we're going to get into semantics, I will clarify that my "strength training" routine includes the major lifts you find in the sport of powerlifting, and bodybuilding workouts that include progressive overload, and de-load segments.

 

[Beendare]

I got through him showing the little Oweee on his leg and had to shut it down....

Sure some good tips on mental toughness and using others to bugle for you [seems pretty obvious] .....but anyone packing an 85# pack in 7 1/2 miles with a boatload of water I have a hard time taking his word as gospel.

If he was carrying my 35# pack...he might have gone 20 miles....grin

He is right about getting into tough spots......after 15 minutes of rambling.

 

[Poser]

If we're going to get into semantics, I will clarify that my "strength training" routine includes the major lifts you find in the sport of powerlifting, and bodybuilding workouts that include progressive overload, and de-load segments.

Thats true, it does include the same movements as powerlifting. I clarify that, however, because many people will interpret the statement “you need to strength train” as meaning “you have to be a powerlifter” which further translates into “you need to look like a (stereotypical) powerlifter”. Others will interpret “strength training” as “you’ll want to look like Ronnie Coleman.”

I merely claim that the vast majority of people only stand to benefit from being stronger than they are at this moment. If you’re coming off the couch, you’re going to have to get stronger before you’re going to be able to do this elk hunting thing. Since the most efficient way to get stronger is to use a systematic progression involving a barbell squat, press/bench press and deadlift (plus a tiny handful of accessories), you should be doing that as part of your training else there is likley a significant void in your fitness.

 

[Poser]

I got through him showing the scab on his leg and had to shut it down.

Sure some good tips on mental toughness.....but anyone packing an 85# pack in 7 1/2 miles with a boatload of water I have a hard time taking his word as gospel.

If he was carrying my 35# pack...he might have gone 20 miles....grin

He is right about getting into tough spots

Since he gave up his unit, curious if any locals can verify that there is even a place to hike 7 miles in and not be closer to somewhere else.

Also, 85# in a KUIU pack sounds terrible. Might as well have used a Jansport.

 

[justinspicher]

I’m probably the opposite of most folks when it comes to elk hunting. I don’t do strength training, I do a lot of body weight work and hike with a pack with a similar load to what I elk hunt with for scouting 2-3x week. I don’t drink much water, eat like I’m still a teenager and don’t see me changing anything anytime soon.

I see a lot of folks make hunting into a chore and that sounds like zero fun.

 

[Billy Goat]

I think a lot of your training has to do with your normal elevation. The lower your typical elevation is the more important cardio is before you get to elevation. If you already live a decent elevation it's not as important.

However anyone who thinks just because they are a runner they can handle the mountains is going to be in for an awakening.

 

[brsnow]

I run marathons and do Pilates. Never have an issue in the mountains.

 

[Felix40]

I cant believe I watched most of that. He sure has things figured out for someone who has been to the mountains two times and never killed an elk. After packing an elk out of that unit in 2018 I actually thought it was one of the more gentle parts of the state.

FWIW I would rather hunt with guys who run than guys who don't any day.

 

[Mlank]

I’m going to watch this for entertainment.

Poser, are you Mark Rippetoe? Jk, but I just assume you know who that is based on your philosophy.

 

[Newton22]

The guy in the links below has had some serious years and study on training to haul heavy packs. If you don't like reading, Exo has a podcast with him. I like to move at my own pace and put my eyes on it, so the links below work better for me. Maybe a little off topic

Mike Prevost: Ruck Training Programs - PART 1 - On Target Publications

Interested in the potential offered by ruck training? Because of its history as a means of military conveyance, there’s plenty of information out there on rucking. Mike Prevost sorts through it with you to help get you started.

www.otpbooks.com

Mike Prevost: Ruck Training Programs - PART 2 - On Target Publications

Interested in the potential offered by ruck training? In Part One, Mike Prevost covered the research. Here he puts it all together in two programs to get you rucking.

www.otpbooks.com

 

[Split toe]

I’ll admit I watched most of it but should have stopped when he was talking about hiking in with over 85lbs.

 

[marktole]

That video was...terrible.

First impression, I would not spend a week in Colorado OTC DIY public land back country backpack archery elk hunting September in Unit 53 with that guy (gotta hit all the buzz words).

Sorry bud, I’m not carrying 14 gallons of water somehow stacked on two back packs past rivers and streams 8 miles deep with you.

 

[Poser]

That video was...terrible.

First impression, I would not spend a week in Colorado OTC DIY public land back country backpack archery elk hunting September in Unit 53 with that guy (gotta hit all the buzz words).

Sorry bud, I’m not carrying 14 gallons of water somehow stacked on two back packs past rivers and streams 8 miles deep with you.

I liked his claim about “you want to get on elk, I can put you on elk....”

so ya got lucky on your first elk hunt and ran into elk. For every nasty drainage with elk in them, there’s a dozen that fit the description that are devoid of elk. Others are hit or miss. Just going to a difficult drainage is no guarantee of anything. I talked to some guys who dropped some coin on a drop hunt the first week of archery in a very remote drainage in the Weminuche without one single elk sighting. Guides with private ranches don’t exhibit that level of confidence on their claims once that final payment has cleared