Why every liberal millennial.......

[Newtosavage]

It looks like I struck a nerve there with your wife being a teacher and all. It really just comes down to the fact that my wife and I don’t trust the most precious thing in our lives to not be negatively influenced by a group of people who I would barely know. I don’t subscribe to the ‘It takes a community’ method. It takes a family, community takes a backseat to family always.

Last time I checked capable parents don’t make the rules in a school system, maybe in yours they do a 180 on anything you’re concerned about. We are coming from totally opposite sides of the tracks here. You’re involved deeply in your local teaching community so you have more say than most.

I just moved to a bigger town in MT so no longer in ID which makes me even more against the idea of public school. I’m originally from Oregon, try telling me any public school there is worth a shit, maybe in eastern OR somewhere.

I don’t really see how i’m robbIng the community of anything. We will still most likely have to pay into public schools wherever we are. My kids not sharing their culture with the school or something? Parent teacher conferences? I think they’ll manage just fine, maybe they’ll even be much better off without this know it all dad lambasting them repeatedly. So in all reality i’m doing the school a big favor. My wife is worse than me btw, they want no part of the 3rd world Filipino anger coming from her.

Actually, I was observing these things in home schooled athletes of mine before my wife became a teacher.

My point about pulling kids like yours out of the school system is that the kids that are left behind won't have the benefit of interacting with your kids, getting help from them if they need it, providing help to them if your kids need it, being on teams with them, etc. And some kids who are struggling just really need good examples in their life. The public school kids will probably not have the chance to be friends with your kids and come over to stay at your house and observe the example you and your wife set for your kids. Those opportunities for interaction and observation are pretty important for many kids who don't have as good a situation at home as you do. I know in my case, as the child if twice divorced parents, living in poverty, the opportunity for me to get to know "normal" kids and go to their house after school and meet "normal" parents and be accepted as part of a team or class assignment, was very important in my life. Like you, I probably otherwise would have been selling drugs to eat when I was 14.

These are the things I think about, and I like the idea that we're supporting the local school and the local community through our participation.

It's kinda like the political system. If people don't participate but they instead just stand back and criticize, how is that ever going to improve things?

Really, I think the mindset of homeschool kids comes down to their parent's mindset. Most I've known are the children of helicopter parents who have an opinion of themselves that isn't supported by fact. Those parents are so sure they know better than anyone else and especially all those public school teachers, and that mindset rubs off on their kids. Their kids grow up not trusting anyone, being too dependent on their parents, and not being resourceful enough as a result. Again, this is what I have observed with my own eyes. Most of the home school kids I worked with, ended up living with their parents well into their 20's, with no real goal or motivation to leave home.

I think so long as the parents don't spend all their time criticizing public schools, and frankly everything else around them, the kids will be fine. However it's been my experience so far, that the majority of home school parents I know are a bit "odd" in terms of their view of things, and usually out in the extremes politically and socially. But if you ask them, they know better than any expert in any field.

 

[16Bore]

Home school or not, parents are still funding the public schools. I don’t think there’s enough home schooled kids to make a difference. Never met a home schooled kid that was mediocre though.

 

[Marbles]

Really, I think the mindset of homeschool kids comes down to their parent's mindset. Most I've known are the children of helicopter parents who have an opinion of themselves that isn't supported by fact. Those parents are so sure they know better than anyone else and especially all those public school teachers, and that mindset rubs off on their kids. Their kids grow up not trusting anyone, being too dependent on their parents, and not being resourceful enough as a result. Again, this is what I have observed with my own eyes. Most of the home school kids I worked with, ended up living with their parents well into their 20's, with no real goal or motivation to leave home.

I think so long as the parents don't spend all their time criticizing public schools, and frankly everything else around them, the kids will be fine. However it's been my experience so far, that the majority of home school parents I know are a bit "odd" in terms of their view of things, and usually out in the extremes politically and socially. But if you ask them, they know better than any expert in any field.

I agree that helicopter parents harm their children with their good intentions. I did not really see that much in the home school families I grew up around (I knew that any adult could discipline and my parents would almost always take their side) and it certainly is not unique to home schooling. However, it is something that turns me off to some home schooling movements I have encountered as an adult. If it was all I knew, I would have a different opinion.

 

[Newtosavage]

Home school or not, parents are still funding the public schools. I don’t think there’s enough home schooled kids to make a difference. Never met a home schooled kid that was mediocre though.

I have. Quite a few actually, and even some that could barely spell, but somehow "graduated." Of course, that's true with some public school kids too, but those kid's parents don't go around proclaiming how much better education their kids got because of the type of schooling they got. LOL

Yes, I know some exceptional home school kids - in certain ways. They are incredibly bright and talented, just like their parents were/are, but they are also incredibly socially awkward, rely on their parents far too much, and will have trouble relating to common folks with common problems and I think that's a shame really.

 

[Newtosavage]

So, how many home school kids these days are learning to hunt? I'd bet a higher % than public school simply because they should have more time to hunt.

(i.e. - trying to get the thread back on track!)

 

[Dustin the wind]

I remember they used to have us watch Bambi in grade school. Really gets you on the right track.

 

[Billinsd]

My wife and I say we're home schooling our kids in the public school system. The public classes are too big in San Diego and the system is corrupt. My son and daughter go to public charter schools that are a little better, the kids and parents are more involved with their kids. For my son, I'm grooming him for a couple elite private high schools in San Diego that cost as much as both room and board at a private University a year and tough to get into. That's just me and my wife helping our kids as much as we can. The social is really tough, especially since I'm the dad. My wife and I have a HUGE influence on our kids and both our kids have minds of their own. This Helps protect them from the social brainwashing, but they keep their mouths shut and get along at school. If you love your kids and you are committed to their education and upbringing, you are 90%, whatever path you choose. Cheers Bill

 

[mwebs]

Where did this thread jaunt off to, wow. I am still confused as to whether I am legally supposed to identify as a bi-curious bow hunter with an affinity for shot guns who was born in the 80s but prefers to be labeled a Gen X or keep the shot gun in the closet and not tell anyone I use it and sign up for Facebook and Instagram.

 

[Billinsd]

I remember they used to have us watch Bambi in grade school. Really gets you on the right track.

I did too in the lates 60s, early 70s

 

[5MilesBack]

Yes, I know some exceptional home school kids - in certain ways. They are incredibly bright and talented, just like their parents were/are, but they are also incredibly socially awkward, rely on their parents far too much, and will have trouble relating to common folks with common problems and I think that's a shame really.

My oldest asked if she could home school when she turned 4. She has never been socially awkward, if anything the total opposite of that. She's always been a social butterfly. I've also raised all my girls to be very independent. She decided to try public school later on and graduated HS with almost a 4.5 GPA after being in the TAG program all four years, along with all the AP courses. She was first chair flute in the school's Wind Ensemble and 1st chair in State Honor Band. She also played soccer. Two years ago at 19 she went to Chile on her own for the summer (9 weeks), then again a trip to Sri Lanka this last December over Christmas break.

Her two sisters are similar in regards to being independent, but they both have just a bit different personalities. The youngest has done public school since K5 but now asked to home-school starting this year in 8th grade. She's even more of a social butterfly than her sister, but she's been that was since she could crawl. They all play different sports. Most of the public school kids I've seen are more like Zombies. Mostly brain dead and getting C's, D's, and F's. And that's in one of the so-called best school districts in CO. It's pretty sad out there these days. My wife is a Para-professional in those same schools. She said 60% of the students had at least one F last year. That's pretty sad.

 

[Okhotnik]

I wonder why the standards in law enforcement, firefighting and the military have been lowered so much in the past 20 years? Because of millennials ?

 

[Poser]

I wonder why the standards in law enforcement, firefighting and the military have been lowered so much in the past 20 years? Because of millennials ?

Obesity.

 

[Okhotnik]

Obesity.

So you cant yell at recruits and possibly hurt their feelings and the academic standards were also lowered because of obesity? lmao

 

[Marbles]

So you cant yell at recruits and possibly hurt their feelings and the academic standards were also lowered because of obesity? lmao

That is hilarious considering that the IQ test scoring has to be revised upwards for younger people. Every generation scores higher than the last (i.e. a raw score that would put a gen-x at 130 might only put a millennial at 120). Most of the softer, kinder military stuff came about in the 90's, that would be Gen-X in training, not millennials. Roy Boehm complained about things getting soft in the 1950s, so before Gen-X was of military age.

 

[Okhotnik]

So the SAT has been dumbed too down because of higher IQ's? Cant flunk anyone now in school because their high IQ's?

Show me stats that high school grads' IQ's have increased the past 20 years. Many cant even read or write or do math at the 8th grade level from 40 years ago.

 

[Marbles]

So the SAT has been dumbed too down because of higher IQ's? Cant flunk anyone now in school because their high IQ's?

Show me stats that high school grads' IQ's have increased the past 20 years. Many cant even read or write or do math at the 8th grade level from 40 years ago.

The Flynn effect is well documented, and has been found to apply to SAT's and ACT's as well. I'm pretty sure I'm wasting my time trying to explain this basic concept, but I'm incorrigible when it comes to sharing information and don't like to believe (contrary to what I see every day) that people are willfully ignorant.

So. First for a brief lesson on the IQ test, which is what lead Flynn to discover the effect that is named after him. The IQ test is intended to measure intelligence against ones peers, as in, what one should know. To do this, a representative sample is given the test. Like many things, the scores tend to plot out on a bell curve. For the IQ test, the mean is assigned a value of 100 (thus 100 could be said to be average intelligence) about half the population will be below the mean, with about half also being above it. As new tests are written they are standardized in the same way.

Keep the above process in mind.

Now, the first IQ test was generated in 1949, it was updated in 1974. The 1974 test had a bell curve distribution where the mean was set at 100, just like the 1949 test. 68 percent of the population will be within one standard deviation of the mean (score between 85 and 115). However, here is the catch. When the 1949 test was administered to those who where used to standardize the 1974 test (and had a normal distribution on the 1974 test) the distribution was significantly shifted to the right on the 1949 test, meaning that most people where above what should have been the mean. This is to say, a person who was of only average intelligence in 1974, would score as above average in 1949. This effect has held true for each subsequent revision of the test (1991, 2003, 2014).

Interestingly, the effect also applies to the right tail of the distribution, not just the middle. Here a scientific paper on the Flynn Effect regarding SAT's and ACT's. http://www.iapsych.com/iqmr/fe/LinkedDocuments/wai2011.pdf

To address your show me demand. You are correct, IQ scores have not improved because by their very design they never will, however base intelligence has. Further more if millennial's (or Gen-Z) where given the "dumbed down" standards of past generations, their scores would be disproportionately high.

 

[Poser]

So you cant yell at recruits and possibly hurt their feelings and the academic standards were also lowered because of obesity? lmao

Physical standards have been lowered, have they not?

 

[Marbles]

Physical standards have been lowered, have they not?

I will leave the burden of proof for this on those making the statement. I will say, it will depend on what you look at. Top athletes are constantly breaking records, 100 mile plus ultramarathons are becoming more common, running a marathon is almost no longer even an achievement as so many people have done it. Everest has been climbed solo without O2.

As for standards in given industries, this really depends. Look them up and compare for us. In regards to infantry, the old solders did not have 40-50 pounds of interceptor body armor on top of the rest of their kit to hump. But, if we want to compare, we must ask, is modern infantry mounted more often?

The other question is, do fitness standards measure what really matters? I know plenty of people who could max out a PFT, but lacked the grit to push through when things started to suck; conversely, I know people who hardly made standards who could push through some pretty horrendous crap (one guy ran 3 miles on an ankle with 5 different fractures in it). I would guess, on average (across the parts of society that have a fitness standard) raw fitness scores have gone up, but grit and functional strength have declined. Keep in mind, that is does not even make it to the SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) level, it is just a WAG.

Of course, it is a documented fact that American society is fatter and less fit today than it was in the past, but this has little effect on if the standards in LE, Firefighting, and military have gone up or down as those fields are not representative of society as a whole.

 

[Marbles]

Soldier, not solder. Sorry.

I would guess, on average (across the parts of society that have a fitness standard) raw fitness scores have gone up, but grit and functional strength have declined.

This is written terribly and is not defensible as written. I'm going to be lazy and not tease out the details needed to given it a snow balls chance in hell.

 

[5MilesBack]

Military standards have definitely changed. These days you don't even have to know what biological sex you are to join. In the past, most kids figured that out by the time they were in kindergarten. So are they really more intelligent these days.......or more misguided?