Wyoming proposal to slash Non-resident hunters

[BuzzH]

That sounds good but keeping public lands in public hands takes more then just residents, especially residents in the west that have a minority representation. Sounds great to have a vast pool of tags available but what would they matter if there’s no where to go or very limited public land?

Western states need NR states support or these lands that will eventually go to the highest bidder in time and really what will it matter to NR that never step foot in these states.

Its not just hunters that care about public lands, and also not hunters that are going to keep them intact.

What are there, 10-12 million hunters in the US? Total population is 340 million? Advanced math, 1 out of every 34 Americans hunt...

Not enough to sway the issues of public lands on their own, by a long shot.

 

[BuzzH]

The American Dream and living abroad seem mutually exclusive.

Not at all....cost of living here is pure crap compared to other places.

You can live like a king in many places outside the US on 2K a month or less. That same money here will get you a shitty place to rent, McDonalds dollar menu, and cable TV...maybe.

I'm shocked how many people stay here full time in retirement.

 

[tdhanses]

Its not just hunters that care about public lands, and also not hunters that are going to keep them intact.

What are there, 10-12 million hunters in the US? Total population is 340 million? Advanced math, 1 out of every 34 Americans hunt...

Not enough to sway the issues of public lands on their own, by a long shot.

Yes and very very few of them utilizes public lands, of the 340 million most will only go to a national park once in their life. Every group that uses public lands is a minority, don’t need basic math skills to realize the truth.

But hunters have a huge voice in their tax dollars for the goods they buy and the lobbiest organizations they fund, this will dry up as they’ll be spending and donating less, much less.

I know BHA likes to think most hunters are idiots but you would see funding dry up fast if NR hunters stopped donating.

 

[tdhanses]

Not at all....cost of living here is pure crap compared to other places.

You can live like a king in many places outside the US on 2K a month or less. That same money here will get you a shitty place to rent, McDonalds dollar menu, and cable TV...maybe.

I'm shocked how many people stay here full time in retirement.

Cost of living in WY is cheap though compared to most states, not hard to earn a living elsewhere and retire there like you’ve suggested. Yes we’d miss out on good hunting until retirement but you would be making our odds better in the next 10-15yrs When we retire.

 

[BuzzH]

Yes and very very few of them utilizes public lands, of the 340 million most will only go to a national park once in their life. Every group that uses public lands is a minority, don’t need basic math skills to realize the truth.

I think you're over-playing the significance of hunters advocating for public lands. Lots of those 10 million hunters don't ever hunt public land or like the Park visitors you're describing, maybe once or twice in their lifetime.

Make no mistake, the advocacy for public lands has got to be wayyyyyy more broad than NR hunting a few times in their life.

 

[BuzzH]

Cost of living in WY is cheap though compared to most states, not hard to earn a living elsewhere and retire there like you’ve suggested.

I guess when I said "here" I was referring to "here" being the United States....not a specific state. Yeah, Wyoming may be cheaper than California, but your money will go a lot further in places outside the US.

 

[tdhanses]

I think you're over-playing the significance of hunters advocating for public lands. Lots of those 10 million hunters don't ever hunt public land or like the Park visitors you're describing, maybe once or twice in their lifetime.

Make no mistake, the advocacy for public lands has got to be wayyyyyy more broad than NR hunting a few times in their life.

Yeah but I know many that give many thousands to groups that lobby for them and they are NR hunters in the west, not all will or do donate but many donte in large sums, others by memberships.

How many rock climbers living out of a van are helping retain public lands? Same goes for hippies, what hippies are giving large sums of money to lobbiest groups? Last I looked it’s the fisherman and hunters funding these orgs and their companies with a few hippy companies joining in.

How many banquets does BHA hold annually that bring in over a Million in funding? What other non hunting orgs are really bringing a fight for protecting public lands?

 

[tdhanses]

I guess when I said "here" I was referring to "here" being the United States....not a specific state. Yeah, Wyoming may be cheaper than California, but your money will go a lot further in places outside the US.

I can see living outside the country, a friend lives on 100acres in Costa Rica 1/2 the year but still not appealing to me. Maybe New Zealand or Canada but the places outside our country that are cheap just don’t appeal to me.

 

[BuzzH]

I can see living outside the country, a friend lives on 100acres in Costa Rica 1/2 the year but still not appealing to me. Maybe New Zealand or Canada but the places outside our country that are cheap just don’t appeal to me.

I'm more fortunate than most, I'll have the ability to live where I want and do what I want in retirement.

Many aren't and why they don't consider options outside the US to be more comfortable in retirement is truly astonishing.

 

[Ten Bears]

Damn right, the first people that should go without are NR hunters....

I feel that way as a NR hunter that's been applying for tags in 8-10 states for over 20 years. I don't have ill will toward NV, UT, OR, NM, AK, CO, etc. etc. etc. when they reduce NR opportunity to give their R's more tags. Its the way it should be...and needs to be.

Would you still feel this way if you never experienced all the great hunts you already went on ? It seems easy to sit back and cut apart something people already bought into when you have already experienced these great hunts. Would the sentiment be the same for a young Buzz still living in a different state ?

As a main voice of BHA whose foundational statement of access and opportunity improvement, how can you continue to pander and market to a younger generation of hunters while seemingly cancelling opportunity.

If the money doesn't matter from NR as you have implied MULTIPLE times in this never ending thread why keep asking and marketing to NR's and youth in general ?

 

[tdhanses]

I'm more fortunate than most, I'll have the ability to live where I want and do what I want in retirement.

Many aren't and why they don't consider options outside the US to be more comfortable in retirement is truly astonishing.

Yeah but in the areas you say are cheaper they aren’t anywhere. I’d rather just visit places in retirement.

 

[tdhanses]

Would you still feel this way if you never experienced all the great hunts you already went on ? It seems easy to sit back and cut apart something people already bought into when you have already experienced these great hunts. Would the sentiment be the same for a young Buzz still living in a different state ?

As a main voice of BHA whose foundational statement of access and opportunity improvement, how can you continue to pander and market to a younger generation of hunters while seemingly cancelling opportunity.

If the money doesn't matter from NR as you have implied MULTIPLE times in this never ending thread why keep asking and marketing to NR's and youth in general ?

I think he only panders to WY residents for support, I think he’s only on a state committee and not a board member of the org, so he really is doing what is in their favor for a state chapter. I could be wrong on this but if he’s on the state chapter only really the NR doesn’t apply to it other then they may receive some funding that was earned from all memebers.

 

[Ten Bears]

I think he only panders to WY residents for support, I think he’s only on a state committee and not a board member of the org, so he really is doing what is in their favor for a state chapter.

It’s an arm of the national chapter and for me it speaks volumes of the organization as a whole.

 

[Lawnboi]

I don’t think anyone is saying WY doesn’t have the right, just not rolling over and saying well we can’t do a thing so let’s just take it. NR have a right to their voice, heard or not. I’m not sure about AK but NR contribute a lot of $$ to local economies and game depts in the lower 48. I feel we are getting close to a point where NR are tired of propping up states game depts, so emotions and voices get louder.

In reality there will be a tipping point but it’ll be a combination of things, not just tag prices or allocations that truly turn the tide to how will states continue to fund wildlife management with resident funding being the major contributor. I’m sure when fuel is $8 a gal we’ll see far fewer traveling to hunt.

Someday only the very wealthy will travel to hunt, could be 30 years from now, could be 10, hard to say but if we stay quiet it’ll be sooner then later and in the end it will effect the resident hunter as well. Hunting is not a feed your family activity in the eyes of the majority, look at how states are looking to make more trophy opportunities every year by reducing opportunities, more unit’s going to draw, tages being reduced, prices jumping to doubling, etc.

Doubt my kids have the opportunities I/we have had, resident or not. Some focus on a small ideals and alienate the larger picture which is preserving our hunting heritage long term, it is decaying away each year. We can’t focus on our own house when the neighborhood is slowly falling apart.

It’s all greed. Everyone wants a bigger piece of the pie now.

Trophy hunting units are bullshit, manage for a healthy herd.

Reality is that a lot of guys, even some on here don’t give 2 shits about anyones opportunity but their own.

 

[tdhanses]

It’s all greed. Everyone wants a bigger piece of the pie now.

Trophy hunting units are bullshit, manage for a healthy herd.

Reality is that a lot of guys, even some on here don’t give 2 shits about anyones opportunity but their own.

Completely agree!

 

[BuzzH]

Would you still feel this way if you never experienced all the great hunts you already went on ? It seems easy to sit back and cut apart something people already bought into when you have already experienced these great hunts. Would the sentiment be the same for a young Buzz still living in a different state ?

As a main voice of BHA whose foundational statement of access and opportunity improvement, how can you continue to pander and market to a younger generation of hunters while seemingly cancelling opportunity.

If the money doesn't matter from NR as you have implied MULTIPLE times in this never ending thread why keep asking and marketing to NR's and youth in general ?

Yes, I never hunted out of state until 1995 only hunted Montana. My Grandfather never hunted as a NR of another State his whole life (well he did shoot some Roe Deer while serving during WWII, but I don't think he paid for those tags) My Dad and Brother never hunted as NR's until after 2000.

I've got a boatload of points in a lot of states, states that have and probably (rightfully so) will continue to cut my chances of ever drawing a tag there. Its the RIGHT way to handle it. Before a Resident sits on the sidelines, every NR tag should be cut first, and I've always felt that way, and always will.

Try to justify to me, even if I have bought licenses, points, etc. that I should be given a tag in front of a Resident.

What's the justification? That I'm entitled because, like in Utah where I have 22 deer points, 22 sheep points, 12 for everything else, I'm owed a tag? I should kick a Utah R to the curb because I shelled out some money?

Not only NO, but HELL NO should I be surprised or have my feelings hurt when they want more opportunities for THEIR RESIDENTS.

Am I grateful that they even allow me the opportunity at a few tags? Absolutely, but I'm not sorry for spending money funding wildlife there even though I've never drawn a tag. Wouldn't even feel bad if they quit allowing NR's to apply there at all. I knew the risks 22 years ago and I knew what I was buying and that there may not be a return of a tag for my investment.

I don't understand the entitlement NR's think they have over another State's Wildlife ...you just don't have an entitlement, period.

 

[sneaky]

If you talked to me I'd be saying. "I've gone back in time!! This place is fantastic, reminds me of the small, rural town I grew up in, 20 miles from Disneyland, in the 60s and 70s, when you could leave your door unlocked".

You mean the days when there actually were orange groves in orange county? Lol

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Bigbull]

Yes, I never hunted out of state until 1995 only hunted Montana. My Grandfather never hunted as a NR of another State his whole life (well he did shoot some Roe Deer while serving during WWII, but I don't think he paid for those tags) My Dad and Brother never hunted as NR's until after 2000.

I've got a boatload of points in a lot of states, states that have and probably (rightfully so) will continue to cut my chances of ever drawing a tag there. Its the RIGHT way to handle it. Before a Resident sits on the sidelines, every NR tag should be cut first, and I've always felt that way, and always will.

Try to justify to me, even if I have bought licenses, points, etc. that I should be given a tag in front of a Resident.

What's the justification? That I'm entitled because, like in Utah where I have 22 deer points, 22 sheep points, 12 for everything else, I'm owed a tag? I should kick a Utah R to the curb because I shelled out some money?

Not only NO, but HELL NO should I be surprised or have my feelings hurt when they want more opportunities for THEIR RESIDENTS.

Am I grateful that they even allow me the opportunity at a few tags? Absolutely, but I'm not sorry for spending money funding wildlife there even though I've never drawn a tag. Wouldn't even feel bad if they quit allowing NR's to apply there at all. I knew the risks 22 years ago and I knew what I was buying and that there may not be a return of a tag for my investment.

I don't understand the entitlement NR's think they have over another State's Wildlife ...you just don't, period.

You don’t understand nonresidents desire for more and quality hunting in your state because you are a resident in this state, which just so happens to have the best resident hunting opportunities in the country.

You want more and better hunting for you and your fellow resident. PERIOD. Less for nonresidents means more (in terms of quality or quantity) for you.

It makes sense that you would feel this way, so just be honest about it.

To suggest that you have some philosophical or moral opposition to a small percentage of non residents acquiring tags at the expense of any states residents is a joke. I guess it’s just coincidence that you spend all this time fighting for what directly benefits You and your fellow residents??? I am sure you will get around to fighting for residents in other states when you are done with Wyoming, right. Haha You are funny.

 

[BuzzH]

You don’t understand nonresidents desire for more and quality hunting in your state because you are a resident in this state, which just so happens to have the best resident hunting opportunities in the country.

You want more and better hunting for you and your fellow resident. PERIOD. Less for nonresidents means more (in terms of quality or quantity) for you.

It makes sense that you would feel this way, so just be honest about it.

When have I not been honest about it?

Residents come first...and rightfully so. Of course I want better chances and more moose, sheep, goat, bison, lq elk, deer, and pronghorn for our Residents. Foolish not to advocate for that. I'm fine with 90-10 being the gold standard across the West, nearly all, if not all of the States I apply as a NR in have similar or lesser NR allocations. Makes only one thing, and that's sense.

You're wrong, I fully understand nonresidents desire to hunt other states, I do it every chance I get. But, I don't bitch about the allocations, I don't bitch about the fees increasing, I don't bitch when NR tags are reduced, I don't bitch when Residents look out for themselves first, I don't bitch when I don't draw. I don't bitch about being owed a tag. I don't bitch about how long I've applied. I don't bitch when I'm required to buy a hunting license I'll never use.

I'm thankful for ANY opportunity another State gives me to apply...and I don't expect that opportunity to increase or be there forever or for the cost to do anything but increase.

What more honesty do you expect or want?

 

[Ten Bears]

Yes, I never hunted out of state until 1995 only hunted Montana. My Grandfather never hunted as a NR of another State his whole life (well he did shoot some Roe Deer while serving during WWII, but I don't think he paid for those tags) My Dad and Brother never hunted as NR's until after 2000.

I've got a boatload of points in a lot of states, states that have and probably (rightfully so) will continue to cut my chances of ever drawing a tag there. Its the RIGHT way to handle it. Before a Resident sits on the sidelines, every NR tag should be cut first, and I've always felt that way, and always will.

Try to justify to me, even if I have bought licenses, points, etc. that I should be given a tag in front of a Resident.

What's the justification? That I'm entitled because, like in Utah where I have 22 deer points, 22 sheep points, 12 for everything else, I'm owed a tag? I should kick a Utah R to the curb because I shelled out some money?

Not only NO, but HELL NO should I be surprised or have my feelings hurt when they want more opportunities for THEIR RESIDENTS.

Am I grateful that they even allow me the opportunity at a few tags? Absolutely, but I'm not sorry for spending money funding wildlife there even though I've never drawn a tag. Wouldn't even feel bad if they quit allowing NR's to apply there at all. I knew the risks 22 years ago and I knew what I was buying and that there may not be a return of a tag for my investment.

I don't understand the entitlement NR's think they have over another State's Wildlife ...you just don't have an entitlement, period.

Again no where on this entire thread had a non resident demanded a tag or entitlement. Just opportunity for quality hunts that we have already contributed to. Which you know already. You just keep repeating the same lies over and over.

It’s laughable that you wouldn’t be upset over having your points mean nothing. You’re the guy who has entire threads dedicated to your tantrums on various unsavory sites so its make that a really tough sell.

Where does it stop ? Is 80/20 85/15 90/10 95/5 Zero tags ?