Trip cut short due to altitude sickness

[All American Boy]

It's really the sleeping at altitude that gets people when your respiratory system slows. The Diamox helps some people. That said, as others have said, camp low, hunt high. Also, if you have a cold, or shin is congestion, this can slow your breathing and reduce oxygen. Decongestants, etc if this is the case. Hope everyone feels better.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Another good resource on the topic:

https://soundcloud.com/huntbackcountry%2F140-altitude-sickness-prevention-diagnosis-treatment

 

[MikeL]

Diamox has helped me in the past.

 

[tgus59]

Do the cans of oxygen do anything to help?

 

[Bigjay73]

Do the cans of oxygen do anything to help?

No

 

[fwafwow]

I thought this was interesting -

Altitude Illness Clinical Guide For Physicians

Altitude Illness Clinical Guide For Physicians. Information on altitude physiology, acclimatization, Acute Mountain Sickness, High Altitude Cerebral Edema, and High Altitude Pulmonary Edema, and High Altitude Cough. Diagnostic criteria and specific treatment protocols are discussed.

www.high-altitude-medicine.com

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[ColeyG]

Altitude illness is caused by one thing and one thing along, going too high, too quickly. From sea level to 8400' is a very significant change in altitude even though 8400' isn't terribly high. It is certainly high enough to get sick, obviously.

The altitude at which you are sleeping is far more important than your highest altitude on any given day. People cruise 14K peaks like Rainier in day or overnight trips all of the time and typically don't get sick because they are moving and breathing hard the whole time, and their exposure is short enough they don't have time to get sick.

As has been said, each exposure to high altitude is different and past issues mean very little re: how you will acclimate the next time. Kids are particularly susceptible to altitude illness as their compensatory systems are not fully developed and/or the combined stress can be a lot more significant on a smaller, weaker body.

What diamox dose were you taking leading into the trip? I've had better luck with Diamox using at the time of need rather than prophylactic pre-loading.

When you feel AMS creeping in, going down is a good thing. A change in 3000' or more is typically needed to start to feel better once you are in the grip of AMS.

Next time, try and spend a night or two at a more moderate elevation, say 5500 to 6000 feet before you camp at 8K or above. Do some moderate or light hiking during those days but don't wear yourselves out. Active acclimatization is good.

Lots of other thoughts on the topic can be found in an article I put together for the Journal of Mountain Hunting last year.

https://journalofmountainhunting.co...ss-prevention-and-treatment-by-coley-gentzel/

Sorry the hunt got cut short and glad it sounds like your boy is back in good shape.

 

[Farmingdale's Finest]

Altitude illness is caused by one thing and one thing along, going too high, too quickly. From sea level to 8400' is a very significant change in altitude even though 8400' isn't terribly high. It is certainly high enough to get sick, obviously.

The altitude at which you are sleeping is far more important than your highest altitude on any given day. People cruise 14K peaks like Rainier in day or overnight trips all of the time and typically don't get sick because they are moving and breathing hard the whole time, and their exposure is short enough they don't have time to get sick.

As has been said, each exposure to high altitude is different and past issues mean very little re: how you will acclimate the next time. Kids are particularly susceptible to altitude illness as their compensatory systems are not fully developed and/or the combined stress can be a lot more significant on a smaller, weaker body.

What diamox dose were you taking leading into the trip? I've had better luck with Diamox using at the time of need rather than prophylactic pre-loading.

When you feel AMS creeping in, going down is a good thing. A change in 3000' or more is typically needed to start to feel better once you are in the grip of AMS.

Next time, try and spend a night or two at a more moderate elevation, say 5500 to 6000 feet before you camp at 8K or above. Do some moderate or light hiking during those days but don't wear yourselves out. Active acclimatization is good.

Lots of other thoughts on the topic can be found in an article I put together for the Journal of Mountain Hunting last year.

https://journalofmountainhunting.co...ss-prevention-and-treatment-by-coley-gentzel/

Sorry the hunt got cut short and glad it sounds like your boy is back in good shape.

I am clearly not an expert on the subject but it seems odd to me that the 8400 feet didn't bother him for 5 days? This was the lowest altitude we could camp at along the highway in the National Forest the next lower area was town where I took him when he felt ill. We also drove from NJ for 36 hours so there should have been some acclimation even before we got there. No?

We were prescribed 250 mg a day of the Diamox.

While he is my son he is no longer a kid he is going to be 21 next month and 6'5" and 230lb.

Any idea if this has a genetic predisposition? I ask because in July I was in Lake Tahoe with my wife for work/pleasure and the lake is at 6269 feet and she had a mild case of it. Headache, minor stomach ache and bloodshot eyes. The day before we left we did a gondola tour to over 9000 feet. The day after we got home she lost 7 pounds of water weight.

That's a great article and very educational!

 

[LaHunter]

Just guessing, but it is possible that he got dehydrated and didn't eat enough or enough of the right nutrition, which may have led to his situation. Other than that, I would have figured 5 days at elevation and you should be good to go.

 

[Farmingdale's Finest]

Just guessing, but it is possible that he got dehydrated and didn't eat enough or enough of the right nutrition, which may have led to his situation. Other than that, I would have figured 5 days at elevation and you should be good to go.

We both would start the day with 3 liters of water in our bladders and have to refill about 1 pm each day and would have at least a gallon over the course of hunting each day plus more back at camp. We brought Gatorade powder for sports bottles we also had with us but I only remember him drinking that twice other than at camp once or twice. Both of our appetites were definitely suppressed and we walked between 5-7 miles each day. I had peak heart rates in the upper 180's to low 190's according to my fitbit. My resting heart rate also increased from the low to mid 60 bpm to a high the day we left of 86 bpm.

 

[fwafwow]

Did he drink before? Exert himself? Those are only indicators. Pretty sure no one knows what causes it and expect you will never know. The Kifarucast was good.

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[Desk Jockey]

Maybe think about a tune up trip to see if he has a recurrence. Like a summer backpacking adventure to test things out. You can’t het higher than 6700 feet on the east coast but there are other options if you are willing to fly.

For ease of logistics and cheap flights, Mt San jacinto is 100 miles from LA. 2-3 hours from LAX. 10,800 feet. You can take a tram from Palm Springs to 8500 feet and then bag the peak in a day. There is also San Gorgonio right there at 11,000. Hikes to the peak are 7-11 miles and tough. You can get back country permits and stay a couple of nights on either. If he has issues you can bail and explore Southern California.

 

[slvrslngr]

Everyone is different. Sometimes the elevation doesn’t hardly bother me, other times I feel like hell after a couple days. It sounds like he just got worn down and the elevation finally caught up to him. When you’re young and strong it’s easy to just power through the symptoms, then BAM, you’re down for the count. Taking it it easy the first few days should make the trip go better next time but don’t expect to acclimate in 3 or 4 days, it takes weeks to really acclimate. Hydrate, don’t push too hard, take aspirin for the headache and Tums for the stomach. Also avoid alcohol and too much salt.

 

[MuleDeerMike]

I remember my anthropology professor in College told us a story of a native man who lived his entire life at the top of the Andes mountains in South America, twice as high as you were, and at some point became very ill with an unrelated disease and left his village for a city in a lower valley. He was in the city for two weeks for treatment and when he got better he returned to his village and was severely impacted by AMS. No one in the village had ever had it before and it only took 2 weeks at a lower elevation for his hemoglobin levels to drop enough to make him susceptible. That story always really struck me and I think about it everytime someone brings up altitude sickness.

 

[bojangles808]

you got some valuable info for next trip it might sound silly but based on that alone id count that as a success. pretty rare for somebody to come out west and get something down their first year, most of the time your first year is just recon. thats what is was for me. just have a plan b c d and e for next time at lower elevations if it happens again.

 

[Farmingdale's Finest]

you got some valuable info for next trip it might sound silly but based on that alone id count that as a success. pretty rare for somebody to come out west and get something down their first year, most of the time your first year is just recon. thats what is was for me. just have a plan b c d and e for next time at lower elevations if it happens again.

That’s what I told him. I told him that most people the first time don’t have an experience like we did! We met a group of three guys from Wisconsin and one guy has been coming for 5 years and had only seen 1 elk. The other two had never seen one or gotten any responses to calling and they had gone for the last 3 years.


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[ColeyG]

Did he drink before? Exert himself? Those are only indicators. Pretty sure no one knows what causes it and expect you will never know. The Kifarucast was good.

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We know exactly what causes altitude illness, inadequate oxygen in your blood/body.

Based on the timing and description of the symptoms and progression, I’d say this sounds like a classic case of AMS.

Interesting that his mom has had similar issues at a relatively moderate altitude as well. Some people just don't acclimate as well as others and are genetically predisposed to getting altitude illness relatively easily. This is rare, but certainly a real thing for some folks.

 

[fwafwow]

But what causes one person to have inadequate oxygen in their blood when it doesn't impact another, or the same person at a different time, under similar circumstances?

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[cshire]

Listen to this Kifarucast episode if you haven't. Frank has a legit Doc on and she explains what it is and how to handle it.

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kifarcast/kifarucast/e/58926951?autoplay=true

good info in that podcast. heading our for first rifle in October.
Plan is for 2 days at 6500 or so with day trips higher for some road scouting.
hoping for the best.

 

[MuleDeerMike]

But what causes one person to have inadequate oxygen in their blood when it doesn't impact another, or the same person at a different time, under similar circumstances?

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Different levels of hemoglobin.