Beginner Caliber and Rifle

[Formidilosus]

Everyone one of our crews kids use 7-08 or 6.5 creedmoor. 8 girls 4 boys. Ages range from 7 to now 21. Between them I’m guessing close to 300 deer and that’s probably low. They each take 4-6 a year. Grant it in last 7 years most those deer are killed with suppressors so that does change perceived recoil some.

I will say I think most new shooters have more issues with noise then recoil at first IMO

I started and grew up with 300 and 338 win mags and a 300RUM. I killed several hundred in just a few years. I also watched a few more start the same way, and started multiple children/women on 7mm and 300WM’s as well, and they killed lots of deer.

Does that mean that using 300mags for children and new shooters is a good idea because we killed deer?

 

[Thinkingman]

I promise I can put that rifle on a set of bags, not hold it save upright and the trigger,(tie my left hand behind my back if you will) and follow my shot from Tigger pull to impact through my own scope.
It's not that the recoil just isn't noticeable because I'm not a child. It's not there because the scope and rifle more or less don't even move.
I'm aware they do but it's very very minor.

I've owned a Tikka T3 7-08 since 2003.
I have 'a little' experience with it.
Maybe because mine weighs about 7.5lbs with the scope and shooting 139gr Hornady at 3000fps it MIGHT be different from yours.
Please stop making all-knowing statements about a cartridge and platform that varies greatly.
I could say the same thing about my 30lb Lapua 338...'it barely moves' so that means the cartridge doesn't produce recoil?

 

[cuerro viejo]

I started and grew up with 300 and 338 win mags and a 300RUM. I killed several hundred in just a few years. I also watched a few more start the same way, and started multiple children/women on 7mm and 300WM’s as well, and they killed lots of deer.

Does that mean that using 300mags for children and new shooters is a good idea because we killed deer?

I’m only using my experience with multiple <60lb daughters, nieces and friends kids. I would never hand them a 300mag.

I just think your ideology of 7-08 being to much for kids is in error. I get that my and friends experiences are our own, but surely my adolescence daughters aren’t tougher then the average male.

 

[ognennyy]

I have no experience with 7mm-08 but I hear a lot of great things about it, and "survey says" in this thread; thumbs up. I would personally go with .243 or .270 for a younger crowd and if I wanted to send a lot of lead down range without the shoulder protest the following morning. And they have enough zip to get the job done if you're practicing out to appropriate ranges.

I would highly second your initial thought on a Tika T3. I know they're more expensive than the entry level Ruger / Savage type rifles and it won't leave cash for a scope. First rifle I ever bought was a Tika T3 in 30-06. I have since bought and sold three other rifles. I just love the tight grouping, smooth bolt action and light carry weight of my T3. My shoulder does get a little pissed though after sending 25-30 180-grain rounds down range out of such a light weight 30-06.

 

[young-gun]

I gotta Vote 6.5 Creed as well I think it checks the right boxes for you!

 

[Formidilosus]

I just think your ideology of 7-08 being to much for kids is in error.

Based on what? There’s more that I am pointing out than just ability to grit through something and hit a deer. The experience that they feel physically is the same as an adult male feels with full tilt 300 mag and 200gr bullets- that is fact. Of course males can shoot 300 mags “fine”, but there isn’t anyone that would say they are low recoil.

I get that my and friends experiences are our own, but surely my adolescence daughters aren’t tougher then the average male.

That’s the base problem “tough” is the view or determiner. People can work through most things. I’m talking measured validated shooting ability. That is effected by recoil levels of the 7mm-08.

 

[WesternSlope]

One question to ask yourself is if there’s a rimfire equivalent of whatever rifle you’re thinking about. Tikka T1’s use the same trigger and stock as the T3’s and they’re available in right and left hand. I have a LH Ruger 77 that I really enjoy, but it is a bummer that they don’t make the 77/22 in left hand. My plan for my boys is Tikkas in .22lr and then identical rifles in 6.5. One of my sons will also be a left hand rifle shooter the LH option is nice.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Based on what? There’s more that I am pointing out than just ability to grit through something and hit a deer. The experience that they feel physically is the same as an adult male feels with full tilt 300 mag and 200gr bullets- that is fact. Of course males can shoot 300 mags “fine”, but there isn’t anyone that would say they are low recoil.




That’s the base problem “tough” is the view or determiner. People can work through most things. I’m talking measured validated shooting ability. That is effected by recoil levels of the 7mm-08.

You are talking in circles, what counts as validation?

20, 50, 100 animals? My niece had 200 deer before her 12th birth day. My 9 will most likely have that beat before that.

I’m talking about little adolescent girls staking the freezer full of venison and pork with 7/08 and 6.5 CM while you are saying most men can’t handle the recoil.

Again I get my experiences are different especially since my kids are privileged to a different set of hunting experiences then most but none the less results speak. It’s not isolated, dozen plus kids

I understand your thoughts on accuracy, but there is a diminishing return in on game performance when you step down to low.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Ya'll know there's a whole thread about killing elk and bigger with a 223, right? A few thousand posts and some decent elk kills too.

.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

www.rokslide.com

 

[Formidilosus]

You are talking in circles, what counts as validation?

20, 50, 100 animals? My niece had 200 deer before her 12th birth day. My 9 will most likely have that beat before that.

I’m talking about little adolescent girls staking the freezer full of venison and pork with 7/08 and 6.5 CM while you are saying most men can’t handle the recoil.

I am not talking in circles and I’m not trying to be rude, however I can only explain this to you, I can not understand it for you.

Do you understand the physics of a gun firing? The same gun causes more movement rearward if it is placed butt first against a 5lb sandbag, versus if is placed against a 20lb sandbag. Your experience with someone shooting a deer has zero to do with what the gun is doing to the person shooting it. Little bodies, with little necks, means any given force is moving little brains inside of little skulls more than they are you. Think football and concussions since you don’t want to, or can not understand that every single human alive shoots guns with less recoil better than guns with more recoil.

Again I get my experiences are different especially since my kids are privileged to a different set of hunting experiences then most but none the less results speak. It’s not isolated, dozen plus kids

At no point have I said that your experiences are different or in any way aren’t true. There are several different things being discussed in this thread now- primarily shooting performance as it relates to recoil; and recoil effects on different sized bodies and brains.

I understand your thoughts on accuracy, but there is a diminishing return in on game performance when you step down to low.

Can you tell me where that is and how to measure it exactly? As the post directly above this one links to, a 223 with correct bullets will kill any game animal in NA without issue and quickly.

 

[ElPollo]

It’s sorta sad that this whole thread turned into a discussion about how tough our kids are instead of how to develop them into skilled shooters.

 

[BLJ]

I’ll check it out in the morning @Formidilosus. Thanks.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Can you tell me where that is and how to measure it exactly? As the post directly above this one links to, a 223 with correct bullets will kill any game animal in NA without issue and quickly.

I understand what you are saying I cull with a 22-250. With that said I’m controlling most of the variables. I’m driving around in a top drive, suppressed, killing does in most cases under 80 yards from the road, over corn, with a specific shot placement. I’m not targeting a specific deer it’s sheer efficiency to hit a certain number of left over tags to meet biologists requirements. There is no way I would let a novice shooter take that type of shot placement.

Anyways we are just going to go in circles. I think the 7/08 is a better trade off for a multiple amounts hunting situation then lessor 22-250, 222, 223 etc. while still falling in a very manageable range of recoil.

 

[TuckTruck]

I bought a savage 110 in 6.5 CM for my niece. There’s hardly any recoil, ammo is readily available and affordable, and being a savage with an accustock, I can adjust the lop for her as she grows. And it’s got enough umph to take down a deer. I shoot it occasionally when we’re at the range and it’s an easy sub-moa rifle. I couldnt be happier!

 

[DeerCatcherUT/CO]

25-06 or 243 is plenty for deer. Hundreds of thousands of animals have fallen to these calibers. Put it where it counts

 

[DeerCatcherUT/CO]

I use my m77 7mmRM for everything. Ammo is tough to find these days though. Also they kill from both ends if you know what I mean. 243, 308, 25-06, 6.0 creed are all easy shooters and easy ammo to find. The majority of my kills have been less than 350 yards with a good rest. Basically any of these calibers are lethal at that range. My grandma shot 50+ bucks with a 22-250 out to 400 yards. Learn to get in and get a good rest and take the shot. Shoot what is the easiest ammo to get. The7mm is rough now days

 

[Bellator12]

I'm in a similar boat and hoping for some input as well. I'd like to find a rifle both my son (almost 9) and wife could use for deer hunting, maybe even elk eventually. My first struggle has been chambering, I know very little about smaller hunting rounds hut it seems like 7mm-08 and 6.5cm are the most preferred options for deer, but likely underpowered for elk so I may have to find something a bit more powerful down the road.
My next hurdle is I'd like something with an adjustable stock so I can adjust at least length of pull for my son as he grows. My wife is 5'6" so she needs something a little smaller than a standard rifle to shoot comfortably. I have AR rifles and I suppose I could get a 6.5cm upper for my AR10 but I was thinking a bolt gun would be lighter and easier to handle for both of them. What is out there for decent bolt guns? I know Savage has some offerings with the Accustock (not exactly sure which ones) and Bergara has the B14 HMR but haven't found much else.

 

[Snake0825]

My first rifle was an H&R single shot .243. With 100gr soft point I killed a lot of deer with it before I moved to a .308.

 

[TuckTruck]

I'm in a similar boat and hoping for some input as well. I'd like to find a rifle both my son (almost 9) and wife could use for deer hunting, maybe even elk eventually. My first struggle has been chambering, I know very little about smaller hunting rounds hut it seems like 7mm-08 and 6.5cm are the most preferred options for deer, but likely underpowered for elk so I may have to find something a bit more powerful down the road.
My next hurdle is I'd like something with an adjustable stock so I can adjust at least length of pull for my son as he grows. My wife is 5'6" so she needs something a little smaller than a standard rifle to shoot comfortably. I have AR rifles and I suppose I could get a 6.5cm upper for my AR10 but I was thinking a bolt gun would be lighter and easier to handle for both of them. What is out there for decent bolt guns? I know Savage has some offerings with the Accustock (not exactly sure which ones) and Bergara has the B14 HMR but haven't found much else.

This is exactly what I was doing last year. I ended on savage 110 in 6.5 cm. Lots of ammo available at a good price, good for anything up to mule deer sized game out to 500 yds or so, and the stock is adjustable so it fits my niece and wife ( both are 5’2”). And it’s super accurate. Good luck!

 

[will.averill]

308 Win


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