10mm Ammo would you rather?

roosiebull

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You're going on vacation in WY/MT for a week. Doing an overnighter in the Wind Rivers then heading up to MT to camp/fish the rest of the time. Maybe going through Glacier. You're from Pennsylvania where black bears are the biggest thing in the woods.

So you own a Glock 20 and carry Sig 180gr FMJs in it when you're in the woods normally and hollow points around town.

Would you rather spend $50 on 40 rounds of Underwood hard cast for your week out west? Or just call it good with the Sig FMJs that you have and save your money.

Oh and btw money is fairly tight (you can afford the ammo but your gf might get ticked off) and you also have bear spray you plan on taking.

What would you do if you were me?
I say get the ammo you are confident in, like mentioned above, it doesn’t go bad... you’ll have it.

that being said, what are the odds of the 180’s not being effective but the underwood being effective? I say it’s VERY unlikely! I prefer the same setup as 5milesback, alternate hard cast and xtp... I have not stopped a charging grizz, so I won’t say my setup is effective... hopefully I never find out.

I would get the Underwood, it’s good to keep your GF on her toes if nothing else, but in real world practical applications, your 180’s are probably fine, it will come down to reaction time and shooting well under pressure rather than the actual projectile
 

MattB

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I personally wouldn't run hollow points against a grizzly or brown bear, their expansion works against the desired outcome of maximum penetration.
 

Coopsdaddy

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If you can’t afford that than you may have bigger issues.I dont think I would be going on vacation. Without a question get the good ammo.
 

Beendare

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I personally wouldn't run hollow points against a grizzly or brown bear, their expansion works against the desired outcome of maximum penetration.
Agreed.

Ive shot a bunch of charging hogs back in the day with 158 gr hollowpoints. In many cases those were incredibly ineffective.
Hard cast is a penetrating monster- a game changer.


 

Timeless61

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Is there an appreciable difference between hard cast and FMJ’s? Why?
Yes. Generally hard cast of the wide flat nose variety do a couple of things better than FMJ. They generally don’t deform as much so straight-line penetration is much better. FMJ generally deform when they hit something and then penetration becomes unpredictable. A copper solid in the wide flat nose shape may actually perform better than hard cast, but are not as proven yet. Due to the wide flat nose they disturb more tissue and create a bigger permanent wound channel.
 

ScreamingPotato

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If your GF loves you she'd pay for the Underwood, then you're off the hook!

I know I'm a month late on this thread but wanted to ask, I thought the Hickock test was the 230gr Buffalo Bore that tumbled and 220gr/200gr Underwood both shot fine? I'll go back and watch the video when I have time.
 

Timeless61

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If your GF loves you she'd pay for the Underwood, then you're off the hook!

I know I'm a month late on this thread but wanted to ask, I thought the Hickock test was the 230gr Buffalo Bore that tumbled and 220gr/200gr Underwood both shot fine? I'll go back and watch the video when I have time.
Buffalo Bore 220 is what tumbled. I have had it tumble out of a stock Glock 20 as well. I have not heard anything on the heavier than 200 Underwood.
 

Beendare

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A few friends confirmed the 220g tumbling so I just skipped it.


FWIW, I’ve shot hundreds of rounds of the Underwood 200g hard cast in my G20 with stock barrel and springs- it shoots lights out, no tumbling and no malfunctions.
.
 
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Button

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BuffaloBore hard cast. Or Underwood hard cast.
I bought some 44mag 340 grain +p+ BuffaloBore impressive but very manageable recoil. Not bad
 

Button

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My brother has underwood in his glock 40. And that’s what he’s taking when we hunt in grizzly country. I’ll be packing a 44mag
 

Mosski

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I would look at the underwood extreme penetrators, I know everyone says hard casts are the go too but for bear anatomy penetration seems more important and there are some good ballistic tests on youtube.
 

Mike7

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Extreme penetrators may do great on penetration of a relatively soft substrate like gel when compared to hollow points, while still doing a decent amount of soft tissue damage.

But when I have tried extreme penetrators side by side to hard cast on harder substrates like wood (as a substitute for bone), the hard casts penetrate much better.
 

505Wapiti

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MidwayUSA recently had some 200 and 220 hard cast 10mm at a reasonable cost. Not sure if anyone mentioned that previously.
 

dmc

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Thanks for the Midway tip. I bought some underwoods - hoping for less smoke than the buffalo bores.
 

505Wapiti

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The hard cast is coated and supposedly the powder will have less of a muzzle flash at night. Not sure if anyone has actually tested this or proven it correct or not.
 

Mosski

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Extreme penetrators may do great on penetration of a relatively soft substrate like gel when compared to hollow points, while still doing a decent amount of soft tissue damage.

But when I have tried extreme penetrators side by side to hard cast on harder substrates like wood (as a substitute for bone), the hard casts penetrate much better.
Thanks for the explanation,Good to know

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
 

2ski

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There are instances when bear spray will work, but there are no instances where spray will outperform a properly used firearm in the event of a bear attack. You want no more than you can proficiently handle, and I would want no less than the 10mm which is my standard carry. Hard cast penetrating bullets, never soft bullets for bear protection.
There are actually many instances. Spray is a cloud a bear has to run through. A gun is putting a bullet in the head of a charging bear while it's running at you fast. I feel more comfortable carrying a gun in addition to spray so don't anyone take this as I'm all about spray and nothing else, but to say there are "no instances" just shows you to be uninformed on the subject. Off the top of my head, I can think of more cases where someone pulled a gun and got mauled vs spray. Remember you can't shoot a bear in the body and depend on stopping it.

For everyone else, I get that your choice may be a sidearm and I fully support that. Comfort and confidence are huge.
 
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